Land Jet

But that is not what is written in a number of driving books by ex-pros that I have read.

Juan Lopez

Who pays for your gears may also apply here. The pro's perhaps didn't have to worry about that too...

I have only skipped gears when a mechanical failure has forced me to.

Veloce Raptor

Larry, as I said, it was my opinion, and I coach to it as well, for many good reasons. In the end, YOU get to choose how you behave in the car.

KaiB

I have cultivated (uhhh, developed the bad habit) this season and have spoken at length about it with my coach (who wants me to build up a crash box anyway) and the guy who does my tranny work.

It's a bad habit for 99% of us for technical driving reasons (noted above) as well as mechanical ones.

On subject; regarding both downshifting and trail braking, one extremely illuminating thing a person can do would be to get permission to spend a few sessions in different corner stations. Doing so with a coach can provide input from an up-close perspective that provides a real look at so very many things in real time - some good, much bad and all worthwhile.

Land Jet

Dave, my statement was not meant to belittle your answer, but rather as an added perspective to further the conversation. I personally skip gears but I am not racing and it makes things simpler for me.

I will have to think on and apply your answer to the trail braking topic. I will observe and try to fine tune this in my own behavior during the coming weekend. Thanks.

Adam@Autometrics

Most Pros are very easy on transmissions. The learning process can cause gearbox damage, but this decreases with proficiency.

Going through multiple gears is definitely uncomfortable at first, but how much of track driving was NOT uncomfortable at first?

Juan Lopez

^because they know that "to finish first, you first have to finish".

mpaton

When I first read "2 gears lower" I thought that you MUST have meant "2 hears higher". However, your descriptions of the bad stuff that can happen if your foot slips off the clutch would appear to match being 2 gears lower than the correct gear for the car's speed at that instant.

So assuming you did mean 2 gears lower, that means that your interpretation of skip shifting (that you're not a fan of) is that one downshifts to the exit gear shortly after commencing braking, and leaves the clutch depressed until shortly before accelerating.

Is that your interpretation?

Veloce Raptor

I have seen it done that way, as well as later in the brake zone. Neither is something I advocate doing, although I know many people do it anyway.

onefastviking

I'm thinking that Dave prefers to be working all three pedals at the same time in different phases to each other. Single gear changes to match engine RPM as needed even if that means dropping two gears, which preferably would be done one gear at a time.
Correct Dave ? ? ?

Veloce Raptor

Yep!

Bottom line: **** happens in a car at high speeds, especially in racing. I have been surprised in a car, and didn't like it, so now I do everything I can behind the whheel to avoid surprises. Shifting down through each gear is just one way to avoid surprises.

winders

...and better deal with surprises when they come along in hard braking zones!

Scott

mpaton

OK, thanks for clearing that up.

Obviously, there's more than one way to downshift more than one gear at a time.

That being said, they way in your interpretation is the most abominable I can think of.

It is very harsh on either synchros or dog clutches, and it could easily result in revving the clutch center plate twice as fast as the engine's own red line. Clutches have their own rev limits and can come apart if over revved.

If there is a proper way to downshift more than one gear at a time, then it would be to simple miss out all intermediate shifts except the one to the desired corner exit gear, and to delay that one until the clutch can be lifted immediately after the gear lever is in the correct gear. This is no harder on synchros than any other downshift, carries no extra penalties for foot slipping off clutch than any other downshift and doesn't rev the clutch plate faster than the engine.

In any downshift I consider it important that the clutch is not pressed any longer than may be required to effect a good quality gearchange, so I strongly disapprove of driving with the clutch depressed (as would be happening in Dave's interpretation).

I also consider it good practice that the car always be in the "correct" gear at all times, so that a suitable amount of drive torque can be applied in the event of unforseen circumstances.

So I consider a good implementation of skip shifting to be merely less than desirable, but I do consider your interpretation of it to be an abominably bad practice.

guardsredcab

One thing I learned from VR (and thought it odd at the time) is downshifting through multiple gears (like at the end of the back straight at Mid Ohio from 5th to 3rd - and even 2nd sometimes) and blipping with each change but not letting out the clutch with each change. Never had considered it, but you're always in the right gear with matched revs if something happens and there's really no reason to let the clutch out each time anyway - it's just wasted motion and time. Still, the whole process seems to keep me in a rhythm. It was very helpful to me.

onefastviking

I think some people would, and could, make a point for getting the trans. input shaft up to speed would not be a wasted motion or time.