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#511
As an higher level intermediate or advanced level student over the last couple of years, I have a few thoughts on this. I seek events and organizations that I know I can solo with. That's because the quality of instructors varies so widely, you never know what you're going to get. There's nothing worse than having an instructor that has nothing constructive to offer you, but doesn't think to or won't "solo" you. You end up dreading each session. All you want to do is get on the track by yourself without the burden of extra weight and inane comments in your ear.
On the other hand, I've found that being solo for an entire weekend often leads to "empty laps" - putting on miles without focus and distinct purpose. That's why I like working with a pro like VR. Although I'm sure the fees pros like VR charge are very reasonable for their skill and costs, it's still expensive. If PCA and other clubs had a way of matching the higher level instructors with higher level students, that would be great.
My $0.02
On the other hand, I've found that being solo for an entire weekend often leads to "empty laps" - putting on miles without focus and distinct purpose. That's why I like working with a pro like VR. Although I'm sure the fees pros like VR charge are very reasonable for their skill and costs, it's still expensive. If PCA and other clubs had a way of matching the higher level instructors with higher level students, that would be great.
My $0.02
#512
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There's nothing worse than having an instructor that has nothing constructive to offer you, but doesn't think to or won't "solo" you. You end up dreading each session. All you want to do is get on the track by yourself without the burden of extra weight and inane comments in your ear.
On the other hand, I've found that being solo for an entire weekend often leads to "empty laps" - putting on miles without focus and distinct purpose.
On the other hand, I've found that being solo for an entire weekend often leads to "empty laps" - putting on miles without focus and distinct purpose.
Many people come to VR, myself and others looking for definitive, consistent answers to questions that two different club instructors might answer completely differently. This is the number one reason why this private segment of DE is booming.
Regions and chapters bringing in pros to share with their advanced drivers and instructors definitive information, techniques and data-driven approaches are investing in their instructor corps and adding huge value, IMO.
Or, drivers desire evaluation from a professional with a broad range of experience and a significant database from which to pick and choose the tools to assist that driver trying to move to that "next level."
Or, they want guidance from a professional (or a talented amateur) who can communicate so clearly that there is little or no wasted time (and most importantly, no misunderstanding) in the inevitable conversation that reeks with abstract concepts but is filled with juicy nuggets of information.
Or, they want a working relationship with a professional (or talented amateur) who has, as their SOLE priority, forwarding the DRIVER'S agenda and working as the deepest possible resource for that driver's advancement and comprehension of what is required to get there.
The more I learn, the less rigid I am...
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www.peterkrause.net
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#513
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From: All Ate Up With Motor
Great post and great observations!
Many people come to VR, myself and others looking for definitive, consistent answers to questions that two different club instructors might answer completely differently. This is the number one reason why this private segment of DE is booming.
Regions and chapters bringing in pros to share with their advanced drivers and instructors definitive information, techniques and data-driven approaches are investing in their instructor corps and adding huge value, IMO.
Or, drivers desire evaluation from a professional with a broad range of experience and a significant database from which to pick and choose the tools to assist that driver trying to move to that "next level."
Or, they want guidance from a professional (or a talented amateur) who can communicate so clearly that there is little or no wasted time (and most importantly, no misunderstanding) in the inevitable conversation that reeks with abstract concepts but is filled with juicy nuggets of information.
Or, they want a working relationship with a professional (or talented amateur) who has, as their SOLE priority, forwarding the DRIVER'S agenda and working as the deepest possible resource for that driver's advancement and comprehension of what is required to get there.
The more I learn, the less rigid I am...
Many people come to VR, myself and others looking for definitive, consistent answers to questions that two different club instructors might answer completely differently. This is the number one reason why this private segment of DE is booming.
Regions and chapters bringing in pros to share with their advanced drivers and instructors definitive information, techniques and data-driven approaches are investing in their instructor corps and adding huge value, IMO.
Or, drivers desire evaluation from a professional with a broad range of experience and a significant database from which to pick and choose the tools to assist that driver trying to move to that "next level."
Or, they want guidance from a professional (or a talented amateur) who can communicate so clearly that there is little or no wasted time (and most importantly, no misunderstanding) in the inevitable conversation that reeks with abstract concepts but is filled with juicy nuggets of information.
Or, they want a working relationship with a professional (or talented amateur) who has, as their SOLE priority, forwarding the DRIVER'S agenda and working as the deepest possible resource for that driver's advancement and comprehension of what is required to get there.
The more I learn, the less rigid I am...
#514
Someone please explain to me how to brake with no ABS. Tried it a couple of weekends ago and sucked (lost about 4 seconds a lap). Seems like I tried everything, is trail braking impossible without ABS? No matter what I did, if I even turned the wheel a little bit, car went straight.
#515
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From: All Ate Up With Motor
IMO braking a car with a lot of power assist, like yours, with ABS disabled is very difficult, since the power assist really numbs your ability to feel impending lockup, and in fact anything else.
#516
You are right, I couldn't tell at all when lockup was coming and my car is so loud, I couldn't hear it either. I just had to react to the smoke. I thought that disabling the ABS would disable the power assist as well no? Of course I did nothing but pull the fuse.
#517
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From: All Ate Up With Motor
The power assist is vacuum based. The ABS is electrical. So they are not really related. Believe me, it is VERY easy to do what you did. Part of the challenge is the OEM brake bias is set for power assist + ABS, so when you get rid of ABS it really messes things up.
#518
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Brake pad choice can also make it much harder, as well as not driving hard enough. Not a knock on your driving abiliites, but I know it's a new to you car. That can make people drive easier and the brake pads don't stay at operating temps, giving you weird friction levels. Same with the tires making lockup easier than when you are going faster.
#520
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From: Durham, NC and Virginia International Raceway
Thanks!
It's been a great journey to recognize that the challenges to going quickly and well are more universal than most think.
Data and video has shown that no matter what the experience or competence level (often boiling down to the execution, as most drivers comprehend the concepts just fine), the ability to construct a highly detailed strategy to do better is key.
The mind is a very fallible thing. We remember experiences the way we'd like them to have been rather than the way they actually occurred.
Fascinating article in the current issue of the New Yorker magazine by Dr. Atul Gawande entitled "Personal Best," detailing the psychology, background and method of how people can transcend "plateaus" in their profession, in this case surgical practice.
The similarities with what I, VR and others do (and the benefits realized by the author in his own execution of well practiced skills) is remarkable.
Thanks again.
It's been a great journey to recognize that the challenges to going quickly and well are more universal than most think.
Data and video has shown that no matter what the experience or competence level (often boiling down to the execution, as most drivers comprehend the concepts just fine), the ability to construct a highly detailed strategy to do better is key.
The mind is a very fallible thing. We remember experiences the way we'd like them to have been rather than the way they actually occurred.
Fascinating article in the current issue of the New Yorker magazine by Dr. Atul Gawande entitled "Personal Best," detailing the psychology, background and method of how people can transcend "plateaus" in their profession, in this case surgical practice.
The similarities with what I, VR and others do (and the benefits realized by the author in his own execution of well practiced skills) is remarkable.
Thanks again.
#521
>There's nothing worse than having an instructor that has nothing constructive to offer you, but doesn't think to or won't "solo" you
I do not even start on this topic but all I can say is: you get what you pay for. When you go with an organization that has running track days as their core business - you get best bang per your buck.
At some moment all your time spent with 'we are all volunteers here, do not bother us, we have much more important things than your problem' just has to be marked as wasted time and you got to move forward - means private clubs, SCDA, NASA and if you want to develop your skills - you need a private coach who will work with you for your money on your problems. All the rest is bogus.
Open track days with couple of drivers sharing private coach is the best way to go, it is realistically a challenge for an intermediate driver to get to such agreement with your budget and it is a big question of how to start, but, I do not see other way that would work for me personally. Getting stuck in PCA or BMW or other 'volunteer' type club where your goals are neglected over some abstract 'we have our own rules' - I really do not see a point.
PS. I just looked at my log book to confirm - I was signed off to solo at all 5 last subsequent events i attended. Which still does not make me an officially signed-off solo driver in the wonderful PCA world. Ain`t it fun? Not for me, anymore, but, still, was quite fun season, to run after CI at each event, ask for check-out ride to hear why they cannot do it, then when they can - to hear how they do not communicate your success over (but at same time do communicate to check your status just fine), then finally to hear 'we have nothing in the file for you, sorry'. And your log book is good only to wipe your *** with. No one cares, no one needs your money, there is always plenty of new people to take your place - so choose wisely whom you want to pay for.
I do not even start on this topic but all I can say is: you get what you pay for. When you go with an organization that has running track days as their core business - you get best bang per your buck.
At some moment all your time spent with 'we are all volunteers here, do not bother us, we have much more important things than your problem' just has to be marked as wasted time and you got to move forward - means private clubs, SCDA, NASA and if you want to develop your skills - you need a private coach who will work with you for your money on your problems. All the rest is bogus.
Open track days with couple of drivers sharing private coach is the best way to go, it is realistically a challenge for an intermediate driver to get to such agreement with your budget and it is a big question of how to start, but, I do not see other way that would work for me personally. Getting stuck in PCA or BMW or other 'volunteer' type club where your goals are neglected over some abstract 'we have our own rules' - I really do not see a point.
PS. I just looked at my log book to confirm - I was signed off to solo at all 5 last subsequent events i attended. Which still does not make me an officially signed-off solo driver in the wonderful PCA world. Ain`t it fun? Not for me, anymore, but, still, was quite fun season, to run after CI at each event, ask for check-out ride to hear why they cannot do it, then when they can - to hear how they do not communicate your success over (but at same time do communicate to check your status just fine), then finally to hear 'we have nothing in the file for you, sorry'. And your log book is good only to wipe your *** with. No one cares, no one needs your money, there is always plenty of new people to take your place - so choose wisely whom you want to pay for.
Last edited by utkinpol; 10-07-2011 at 04:11 PM.
#522
Bitter much?
The truth is that instructors in general take pride in developing their students and seeing them progress. Nothing gives better satisfaction than sending a student out for their first solo session, and then seeing the big smile on their face when they return to the paddock. Or giving some coaching on how to approach an issue they are having, and then seeing them advance as a result.
The truth is that instructors in general take pride in developing their students and seeing them progress. Nothing gives better satisfaction than sending a student out for their first solo session, and then seeing the big smile on their face when they return to the paddock. Or giving some coaching on how to approach an issue they are having, and then seeing them advance as a result.
#523
>There's nothing worse than having an instructor that has nothing constructive to offer you, but doesn't think to or won't "solo" you
I do not even start on this topic but all I can say is: you get what you pay for. When you go with an organization that has running track days as their core business - you get best bang per your buck.
At some moment all your time spent with 'we are all volunteers here, do not bother us, we have much more important things than your problem' just has to be marked as wasted time and you got to move forward - means private clubs, SCDA, NASA and if you want to develop your skills - you need a private coach who will work with you for your money on your problems. All the rest is bogus.
Open track days with couple of drivers sharing private coach is the best way to go, it is realistically a challenge for an intermediate driver to get to such agreement with your budget and it is a big question of how to start, but, I do not see other way that would work for me personally. Getting stuck in PCA or BMW or other 'volunteer' type club where your goals are neglected over some abstract 'we have our own rules' - I really do not see a point.
PS. I just looked at my log book to confirm - I was signed off to solo at all 5 last subsequent events i attended. Which still does not make me an officially signed-off solo driver in the wonderful PCA world. Ain`t it fun? Not for me, anymore, but, still, was quite fun season, to run after CI at each event, ask for check-out ride to hear why they cannot do it, then when they can - to hear how they do not communicate your success over (but at same time do communicate to check your status just fine), then finally to hear 'we have nothing in the file for you, sorry'. And your log book is good only to wipe your *** with. No one cares, no one needs your money, there is always plenty of new people to take your place - so choose wisely whom you want to pay for.
I do not even start on this topic but all I can say is: you get what you pay for. When you go with an organization that has running track days as their core business - you get best bang per your buck.
At some moment all your time spent with 'we are all volunteers here, do not bother us, we have much more important things than your problem' just has to be marked as wasted time and you got to move forward - means private clubs, SCDA, NASA and if you want to develop your skills - you need a private coach who will work with you for your money on your problems. All the rest is bogus.
Open track days with couple of drivers sharing private coach is the best way to go, it is realistically a challenge for an intermediate driver to get to such agreement with your budget and it is a big question of how to start, but, I do not see other way that would work for me personally. Getting stuck in PCA or BMW or other 'volunteer' type club where your goals are neglected over some abstract 'we have our own rules' - I really do not see a point.
PS. I just looked at my log book to confirm - I was signed off to solo at all 5 last subsequent events i attended. Which still does not make me an officially signed-off solo driver in the wonderful PCA world. Ain`t it fun? Not for me, anymore, but, still, was quite fun season, to run after CI at each event, ask for check-out ride to hear why they cannot do it, then when they can - to hear how they do not communicate your success over (but at same time do communicate to check your status just fine), then finally to hear 'we have nothing in the file for you, sorry'. And your log book is good only to wipe your *** with. No one cares, no one needs your money, there is always plenty of new people to take your place - so choose wisely whom you want to pay for.
#524
as of what i said earlier - home club runs only may be 3-4 events top per whole season on days/locations i can use - as i am not yet retired and have to work to earn my pay and also need to spend time with my family.
each day i can spend on a track is a gift i treasure. it is not about money - it is about time i give to it, time that could be spent on something else. and that`s why it does **** me off bad when this time gets wasted by whatever reason.
if all possible advancement is binded solely to home club alone and any promotion from any other club gets ignored by definition - then it leads to my situation - from 5 completed check outs 4 were done with other clubs and only 1 with home club which wants 2 completed check out rides with different instructors, so i do indeed have now 5 completed check-outs to solo and no promotion. and sorry, for me it is not how i can afford to spend my time.
I find this situation with how PCA local clubs communicate to be totally out of whack as there is no common sense in it at all. I find it to be a hassle to be constantly stressed of how to handle those DE appointments when you need to schedule months ahead and how to balance it with ongoing promotions and way-ahead-of-time bookings on counted available days for available groups.
For most people who spent decades with this system and live by a slogan 'do not like us - do not drive with us' it all makes much more sense perhaps, to me it looks totally ridiculous, sorry. Like anybody who thinks it is OK for CVR club to enlist blue/white/black drivers into green run group and make them go through their own evaluations - it is your choice.
A lot of people who want to get better on their skills simply do not know that there are other alternatives out there. But they do exist.
I only commented on notion above what actually delivers best return for each $/hour spent. I did not expect much else from personal attacks in return as it is common habit here, but, as any other information, it may help somebody who wants to see what options are out there. I also understand that there are almost none of those 'intermediate' drivers here but, still, I felt this was right to say what I think about it. In business world such operational issues would not let any company to live long, and I see no reason other than local vanity fairs on why PCA DEs are getting run the way they are with each local 'DE Tzar' inventing his own ways. Even when 90% of all drivers run in all neihbor clubs all the time and all same instructors do drive in those clubs too.
We all do pay our membership fee to global entity and it would be logical to presume it is a global entity, a USA-wide club of Porsche owners. Instead it all is, well, quite different and it makes life much more difficult than it should have been.
#525
I would be careful with that statement and where it could lead.
The fallacy of of the "pro coach" is that they are better than their students.
There is no correlation of ability to instructing. If there was, the best coach would be the world champ in whatever activity you are partaking, and that rarely works out.
In reality the best coach is the one who quickly identifies problems and finds a solution to their student's problem. Ability to perform at the top level is not necessary although it is a bonus.
The fallacy of of the "pro coach" is that they are better than their students.
There is no correlation of ability to instructing. If there was, the best coach would be the world champ in whatever activity you are partaking, and that rarely works out.
In reality the best coach is the one who quickly identifies problems and finds a solution to their student's problem. Ability to perform at the top level is not necessary although it is a bonus.