Larry Herman

Peter, it seems like what you have described is tailored to the intermediate driver. Of course, data is essential for even the most experienced, but for some, and I put myself in this catagory, there is still something to be gained by having a true pro sit next to you and say "put the car THERE, turn in HERE" etc. in trying to make you be more aggressive or try a different technique. The most fun that I ever had with a "passenger" was when Chris Cervelli was in the right seat. Learned a whole lot too!

ProCoach

Larry, that's why I said "many," but not "all." <grin>

I would say that a fundamental component in the plan "to make you be more aggressive or try a different technique" is equipping any driver, beginner, intermediate or advanced with that specific "local knowledge."

Knowledge SO great and SO detailed that they know, well in advance and without having to consciously think and register beforehand, WHAT to do before they get there.

Heck, my private, pre-event and course specific web study sites contain eight pages of single spaced, "turn-at-this-blade-of-grass" level detail for almost all North American and now some European and Australasian tracks! <very big grin> And yes, I still sit in the right seat and dispense that decisive, authoritative and highly DATA-SUPPORTED information real-time, just like Chris, Andy, Spencer, you, David, Seth, James and Patrick. <huge grin>

I think that's on

ProCoach

Stupid phone posting, can't scroll down the box!

I still think that what you're talking about, Larry, is not level-specific, but more about addressing the individual information gaps that inhibit a driver from moving forward and thrPugh a plateau.

Many very advanced and experienced drivers require a return to this sort of level of detail to do better and I was responding to the OP's statement that for him, his focus and the distraction caused by performance anxiety gets in the way of assimilating the information he needs to to intake to go quicker.

I think at a very advanced level, people have less need for in-car real-time input and process better when away and outside of the car. What you're talking about seems to me to be an intermediate driver's need for "the calibrated butt" of a Chris Cervelli to say, again, real-time, "you've got room left, and THIS is how to take advantage of it."

YMMV, that's why this is so fun. But it should and is, when presented by a professional, all much more individually tailored for the way each driver wants and needs that information presented to them.

That's why our businesses are taking off, wouldn't you say?

KaiB

focus and the distraction caused by performance anxiety

In the hope that this concept is not all about me - and that others may also benefit...

Peter hits a key note here, at least in my case. I wonder if the overriding desire to do well is at times a burden. If I analyze my performance, I'd have to say yes - that this is one of the greatest hurdles I face.

We're back to the sense of the OP here in that much of this game is indeed mental. Given this one "performance anxiety" scenario (which I have to assume is not uncommon), how can we work on minimizing its effect on our ability to best move forward with our training?

ProCoach

Yes, it's more common than you think.

I'd be interested in hearing what VR, bob993t, Larry, Seth and others think about strategies to minimize that. I'll think about that, too.

Larry Herman

I find that lots of liquor typically helps me...........


oops, wrong subject.

bobt993

Peter,

That is a good question. When I would coordinate a coach at the track years back the applicants would all avoid getting down to business until they "warmed up a couple of runs". I would just jump in and get on with it. It is really important that you check your ego at the door and just absorb the feedback. It is all good.

I had a really gung-ho driver in a 11 GT3RS last week and we almost farmed on the first session. Next session, I ended up driving his car for 5 laps discussing the car as we toured the track. His attitude and focus improved so much I had him signed off by the end of the day. Next day his buddy with an identical car tried to stay with him while he was solo ( the other driver still had an instructor pushing him to go faster). Eventually his buddy went off the track. I am sure the mental pressure from the right seat and different car balance suggestions just overloaded him. I was glad that my student had stayed within the parameters I set for him and drove properly.

Question for you Peter is how to you break through the stubborn veteran who responds with "my car does not do that " or avoids truly trying new techniques to improve. It took Larry an entire year to get a veteran racer to move his swaybar!! I am sure you get that often and have figured out how to get past the barrier without affecting the confidence of the driver.

BTW I am not convinced on the track skill being 90% mental. Racing to me is somewhat like a boxer having punching power. You either have the synapse and balance or your struggling to obtain it through repetition. It's not that a driver cannot get better, it just can take a lot longer to reach the goal they want while some drivers are naturally connected to the car.

Larry Herman

Since my attempt at humor failed, maybe I should answer the question.

I cannot say that I have had many students who have been so concerned about getting faster that it affected their ability to learn. More likely it has been timidness, overwhelmingness (?), or overexhuberation that I see impacting focus and learning. As Bob did with the GT3RS driver, it is all about removing the distractions by isolating them to the simplest tasks so that those can begin to happen automatically. Once they do, and the driver gets into a bit of a comfort zone, you can start to add in items one at a time. Sometimes that means just letting them drive and focusing on one skill set or corner for the entire session (or day).

For someone who was pressing so hard to go faster that they could not process any information, I would suggest that taking them out for a ride in the Red group while holding a conversation with them through the entire session could show that they need to relax and let it come to them. The brain can only handle so much on a concious level, so the greater portion of driving that can happen sub-conciously (or automatically) the more thought can be devoted to learning and new information.

As a coach, you really do need a large bag of tools to help each driver with their individual needs.

ProCoach

Larger than most folks realize. That's why there is as much variation between coaches as there is in driver performance!

ProCoach

All good and interesting observations, and I used to be "a veteran racer who wouldn't change ANYTHING," for fear of screwing it up!

Will chew on thus for awhile, but I really believe one of my mentors Bruce MacInnes when he said "well-schooled and coached good talent will beat unschooled and uncoached great talent every time." And he's seen enough to know...

Veloce Raptor

I also have some inputs on these topis but am working, will try to get on here after shower/dinner/etc tonight.

bobt993

VR please shower.

guardsredcab

Larry, your attempt at humor was not lost on me. My wife was annoyed at my burst of laughter, until I told her of your suggested remedy for performance anxiety... LOL (Lots Of Liquor)

VR... shower and maybe Jake and Howard will buy you dinner. Wish I was there!

KaiB, your insightful posts are changing this native Texan's perception of Okies.

PedroNole

Slightly off-topic but you'll get the point.... I was hitting grounders to my son today and yelling out situations (man on 1st, 2 outs, etc) as the ball was coming to him. After about three mistakes in a row, I stopped him and asked what was wrong. He said he was nervous that he would screw up. I told him, baseball's an easy game until you don't know what to do in a given situation and then it becomes embarrassing... He's so worried about the next move that he doesn't properly execute the first move.

Performance anxiety is all about experience and having some baseline of knowledge to fall back on. This is why, in my opinion, folks who are trying to get signed off solo or those that are solo that have an instructor in the car are more difficult sometimes than the green group folks. Most of them still just know enough to be dangerous. In an effort to show how competent they are they try to drive beyond their capabilities and they are in over their head in a situation and don't know how to handle it and don't know how they got there.

An instructors job is to help the student get the most out of his abilities AT THAT TIME. The fastest I have ever gone is the smoothest I have ever been. I look down at the time on my dash and go, wow, that was easy... Anything more than that creates an atmosphere inside the car that is destined for issues... I think this is lost on newer drivers.

jakermc

I do this to some degree as well. It's no so much trying to be polite but I am aware I am being evaluated so maybe I try to be too careful.

I think this is a real advantage of sharing a pro choice with someone instead of having someone dedicated to you all day. I learn best by doing 6-10 laps with a coach, listening to feedback, then going out on my own while the coach works with the other student. This process of alternating between coached sessions and solo sessions works for me.

Also, I learn a lot by skipping every third session or so and just thinking instead of driving. After I'm given a set of instructions, I need to sit and think about why I should be doing that (i.e. understand the instruction, not memorize it) and then do some visualization of me performing it correctly before hitting the track again.

This is one of the reasons VR is such a good coach. He explains the 'why' part of the instruction extremely well. The real benefit of that is I am able to apply his instruction to new tracks. I can associate one corner with another I am familar with, remember the concept of how to drive that type of corner, then apply the instruction I already got. I'm able to pick up new tracks pretty quickly this way.