tahoelife

So in response to the 50/50 statement I have honest question? Should the car ahead at turn have "more" prioity in the corner especially if on the inside going into it? In other racing sports I have done this would be true and all though we are not allowed to "block" in PCA club racing this type of pass should have forced the outside car to slow even more therefore making the pass "stick". If the yellow car had slowed more there would have been room to stay on track. If the outside car had slowed sooner it could have gone "under" the red car that went to deep also protecting at least p2 for the time being?

I also want to make sure it's clear there was no contact therefore no incident other than to deep and no room at exit the way it played out.

hf1

Not an expert here -- just 10yrs tracking and 7yrs racing experience. Both cars drove door to door in multiple turns before the incident. There's no "priority" or "ownership of corners" in racing. The red car did not "own" the next (right) turn/apex at the track out after the crest.

That's irrelevant. It was side by side (with overlap) which earned it its right for racing space.

Also irrelevant. This might have been a better, safer, and more strategic move on its part but we are not discussing risk or strategy here. Just the rules.

Understood. By being denied racing space the yellow car was forced off track to avoid contact, IMO.

Not trying to pass judgment here. I too am trying to learn through this discussion. Congrats on the win, btw!

tahoelife

Thank you for the clarification I truly want to learn I only have 4 years tracking a car and now 3 sprint races so very new. The aspect of door to door earning him the right to enough space makes sense. As mentioned prior was not intentional to leave no space and am thankful He is so good and very aware so he avoided what would have resulted in contact. I have 7 weeks until the next race so I will continue to study and try to improve.

hf1

No problem, and thank you for posting the video and the question. I'm also curious if anyone had a different view.

For me, another very important lesson from this would be not to initiate such risky moves -- and if initiated against me, then not to "fight" them regardless if I have the "right" to do so or not -- especially not so early in the race. This goes both for you and the yellow car. I too still succumb to the heat of such moments and push reason and strategy to the side.

If you can keep up with your opponent, there will be plenty of opportunities to study his weak spots and plan a safer, more strategic attack. Developing this kind of sense about risk management is a big part of race-craft and it only comes with experience. It also separates the series champions (consistent performers) from others who may have similar lap times and occasional wins but seem to have difficulties accumulating points.

audipwr1

I agree - both Tahoe and I were gunning hard as the new rookies on the block (that was weekend 2 for me) and think we both made some over eager moves. I let Tahoe and the yellow SPB guy around when I dive bombed the yellow car as recognition for being over eager (why i sat off the throttle and let Yellow back by again). That and my idiotic attempt of a pass later in the video make this a collection of the poorest decision making ive made on track, tad embarrassing really

The yellow SPB guy is our norcal fast guy and was gracious to us both using good judgement and vision which I appreciate and will learn from.

First weekend at Thunderhill for me at this event, some review of the video shows where I'll be able to get that tenth back from you Tahoe :-)

winders

You kind of need to drive the track to understand that corner. I blame both cars here, though not equally, because neither car slowed enough for it to be possible for both cars to make the corner together without issue. The red car pretty much had to run wider than he intended and the yellow car had very little chance of staying on track on the line he would have to run if the cars stayed sided by side at that speed. They were both going about as fast as they would if they had the corner all to themselves.

Personally, I would never attempt to pass a car of nearly the same performance in that corner. Nor would I try to run side by side through the corner if I did. The red car had the better position at the top of the hill and, if I were the yellow car, I would have backed off just enough to let the red car have the corner. I would do so because of the risk/reward. Running side by side doesn't really gain me much since the red car will have the inside to turns 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 and 11. He is slightly faster than since he caught me so I won't be able to hold him off through all those corners. Even if we are equal that is problematic. So there is likely to be no reward for trying to run side by side through 5. The risk is a wreck or going of track and losing a lot of time.

If there would have been contact, I would put the blame for that on the red car. He would not have completed the pass safely and it would be clear that he did not leave enough racing room. I would like to see the yellow car's video so I could see how much room was actually left by the red car. I can't tell that based on the video we have.

hf1

I think it was clear from the video that the red car did (and had to do) almost a full track out after the crest. There's no way there was car-width+inch space there.

winders

If it is so clear, why did PCA not penalize him for not leaving racing room and forcing the yellow car off the track?

I have often had my opinion of an incident change after having a chance to see more than 1 video.

tahoelife

At this time we (all involved agree) we both were going to fast to "share" the corner. The reason there was no further investigation was because there was no contact due to the yellow car choosing to avoid it. Along with the fact the yellow car driver is a friend and let it go. With that said the lessons learned from this and the rest of the racing that weekend and from here (thank you) will be put to use to be safer! Again thank you for all the feed back

fleadh

Thoughts?


-mike

winders

He seemed to be tightening his line when he didn't need to in an attempt to get you to back off. When you didn't, he gave you no room and you hit him. Is that about right?

Who did the race officials give the blame too?

Veloce Raptor

Boy, that sure looked like a low probability move right there, given the tiny bit of space available... And yeah, predictably, he came in a tiny bit too...

fleadh

Ya, that seems about rite from my point of view. I could have probably avoided the spin if I hit him harder but was trying to avoid contact at all costs -- we were pretty far down the order and it was my first race in years with IMSA GT3 Challenge. It was the last turn of the last lap.

No call -- I didn't complain to any officials about it. I don't think the other driver did either.

I was just curious how the folks here saw it...

-mike

winders

Well, I would put blame on the other guy for taking away the racing room you already had. It seemed unnecessary to close in on you like that. It's not like you did a dive bomb maneuver or something like it. I don't know what the rules are or what was said at the driver's meeting, but at worst, I would say you two share the blame.

Veloce Raptor

I am not so sure I agree with this . The other car's trajectory made this a low probability move.

To me blame is shared.