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#2416
Intermediate
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I am not sure what others are saying about grip pressure, but light grip pressure, to me, means no death grip. You want enough grip pressure to control the steering wheel but no more than is necessary. The phrase "appropriately firm" is better than "light". The goals are threefold: improve feel, improve control, and reduce fatigue.
Assuming you know what you are doing on the track, you know when the steering wheel may move with some force and you adjust the grip pressure accordingly. Oh, make sure your bumpsteer is not too far out of whack too.
Assuming you know what you are doing on the track, you know when the steering wheel may move with some force and you adjust the grip pressure accordingly. Oh, make sure your bumpsteer is not too far out of whack too.
#2417
I am not sure what others are saying about grip pressure, but light grip pressure, to me, means no death grip. You want enough grip pressure to control the steering wheel but no more than is necessary. The phrase "appropriately firm" is better than "light". The goals are threefold: improve feel, improve control, and reduce fatigue.
Assuming you know what you are doing on the track, you know when the steering wheel may move with some force and you adjust the grip pressure accordingly. Oh, make sure your bumpsteer is not too far out of whack too.
Assuming you know what you are doing on the track, you know when the steering wheel may move with some force and you adjust the grip pressure accordingly. Oh, make sure your bumpsteer is not too far out of whack too.
#2419
Rennlist Member
Ok, need some feedback on my TWS laps. Hopefully I'll get a chance to run it once more prior to it being demo'd....
This is my second time at TWS, first time with dry weather. I know I'm not driving T6 correct, as I feel I leave a ton of time on the time based on other videos.
This is my second time at TWS, first time with dry weather. I know I'm not driving T6 correct, as I feel I leave a ton of time on the time based on other videos.
#2420
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Ok, need some feedback on my TWS laps. Hopefully I'll get a chance to run it once more prior to it being demo'd.... This is my second time at TWS, first time with dry weather. I know I'm not driving T6 correct, as I feel I leave a ton of time on the time based on other videos. Video Link: https://youtu.be/XEv86yf01oU
Need to be in one gear higher thru 1 and 2
Pinching exit of 2
Early in 3
Use all the apex curb in 4
You already mentioned 5-6
Uncertain in 12 and need to be one gear higher
Early in 14 which slows your entire straightaway run
#2421
ASK THE COACH
Originally Posted by nxfedlt1
Ok, need some feedback on my TWS laps. Hopefully I'll get a chance to run it once more prior to it being demo'd....
This is my second time at TWS, first time with dry weather. I know I'm not driving T6 correct, as I feel I leave a ton of time on the time based on other videos.
This is my second time at TWS, first time with dry weather. I know I'm not driving T6 correct, as I feel I leave a ton of time on the time based on other videos.
#2422
Burning Brakes
Just a note about gripping the wheel -- experiment with different driving gloves. I started driving with 1 set and got used to them but tended to struggle a little with for-arm pump (which shouldn't happen in a race car!). I figured it was just my for-arms due to years of growing up racing motocross... but a few seasons ago I switched to another brand/model of gloves (they were free!!!) and liked them *much* better. The grip on the palm/fingers gave me much better feel and control on the wheel without having to grab as hard as I did with my original brand of gloves.
This year I've switched to another brand of gloves (love to try free stuff, and if they're good I stick with them) and noticed another slight improvement. Over this past weekend at Silverstone the conversation turned to gloves in our rig between the drivers and I tried on a pair of Wolf's gloves -- he says he's been using them for years and loves them because they palm/fingers are super grippy on the wheel. Sure enough, they were pretty awesome. They're a little old and I'm not sure they still make them so I'll probably stick with my current ones (Adidas).
For my shifter kart I tend to use american football wide receiver gloves bought from a local sporting good store -- they have tremendous grip around the palm/fingers and are also very thin so you get good feel/feedback from the wheel.
Just my 2c...
-mike
This year I've switched to another brand of gloves (love to try free stuff, and if they're good I stick with them) and noticed another slight improvement. Over this past weekend at Silverstone the conversation turned to gloves in our rig between the drivers and I tried on a pair of Wolf's gloves -- he says he's been using them for years and loves them because they palm/fingers are super grippy on the wheel. Sure enough, they were pretty awesome. They're a little old and I'm not sure they still make them so I'll probably stick with my current ones (Adidas).
For my shifter kart I tend to use american football wide receiver gloves bought from a local sporting good store -- they have tremendous grip around the palm/fingers and are also very thin so you get good feel/feedback from the wheel.
Just my 2c...
-mike
#2423
Race Car
I really like the Sparco Tide gloves for the reason you mention, Mike. They are great with suede wheels. I have never tried them with leather wheels but I see no reason why they would not be great with them too. . Racing bikes taught me about being "firm enough" on the grip and no more. But, I had arm pump surgery anyway because of Sears Point!
#2424
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
+1 on Sparco Tide
#2425
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
We haven't discussed this topic in a while: brake release
Had a client recently at Road Atlanta where, for two days, the vast majority of what we worked on was braking...brake cadence...particularly the transition from max braking (for that brake zone) to full release. It's all about gently allowing the chassis to settle on all fours to maximize all four contact patches for faster and more stable corner entry. And executing it well makes an amazing difference in the driver's peace of mind carrying higher and higher entry speeds.
I strongly encourage everyone to really look hard at their full brake cadence from initial application to release. There is a ton of lap time, and confidence, there...
Had a client recently at Road Atlanta where, for two days, the vast majority of what we worked on was braking...brake cadence...particularly the transition from max braking (for that brake zone) to full release. It's all about gently allowing the chassis to settle on all fours to maximize all four contact patches for faster and more stable corner entry. And executing it well makes an amazing difference in the driver's peace of mind carrying higher and higher entry speeds.
I strongly encourage everyone to really look hard at their full brake cadence from initial application to release. There is a ton of lap time, and confidence, there...
#2426
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1) Throttle to brake transition
2) Initial application of brake to max (or near max) pressure
3) Period of sustained high pressure
4) Initial release of brakes after rotating inertia of heavy parts is overcome (and aero load lessens pressure on the tire contact patch).
5) Final release of the brakes. "Shape" of the release and where it lies in relation to the corner entry and steering angle input.
This is good stuff that few pay attention to.
Here is a screen grab of a powerful GT car doing under 1:25 at MRLS with a pro driver. Max pressure .3 seconds from initial. Good release characteristics. Just a nice shape showing exactly how much pressure (and how fast) the driver's foot is pushing down, as well as the subsequent release.
Remember, smooth is not necessarily slow...
__________________
-Peter Krause
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-Peter Krause
www.peterkrause.net
www.gofasternow.com
"Combining the Art and Science of Driving Fast!"
Specializing in Professional, Private Driver Performance Evaluation and Optimization
Consultation Available Remotely and at VIRginia International Raceway
Last edited by ProCoach; 04-26-2016 at 12:56 PM.
#2427
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
+1
Good stuff and you're right, often ignored or under-focused...
Good stuff and you're right, often ignored or under-focused...
#2428
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Something that goes along with this discussion that I've been doing a lot with people lately is to write down what level of braking they are doing at each corner and then see if the data matches that. If yoy think you are doing a 7 pedal (out of 10), are you really braking at 70%? Lots of times on the soft spots, people overbrake because their perception doesn't match what they are doing.
#2429
I have found that my perception of nearly everything I do on the track is wrong, or perhaps better said as less than accurate. As a professional scientist, I'm generally good at objective observation, but at the track, that all goes out the window when I'm driving at speed.
Data is the only practical way to solve it. Coaching can help, but most of us can't afford a coach all the time. Data is required, at least for me, to calibrate my own butt as that is the only way I'm going to execute better.
With data and external video, I've learned:
1) I don't get on the gas as early as I think.
2) I don't get on the gas as hard as I think.
3) I don't brake as late as I think
4) I don't apex nearly as well as I think
5) It wouldn't surprise me at all if I'm not 100% on the brakes (wrt the above discussion).
I'm sure there is a lot of time, just in that list above and I'm sure there is more because I'm a novice wrt to data.
Perhaps those who are blessed as "naturals" in this sport simply have a better default butt calibration.
-Mike
Data is the only practical way to solve it. Coaching can help, but most of us can't afford a coach all the time. Data is required, at least for me, to calibrate my own butt as that is the only way I'm going to execute better.
With data and external video, I've learned:
1) I don't get on the gas as early as I think.
2) I don't get on the gas as hard as I think.
3) I don't brake as late as I think
4) I don't apex nearly as well as I think
5) It wouldn't surprise me at all if I'm not 100% on the brakes (wrt the above discussion).
I'm sure there is a lot of time, just in that list above and I'm sure there is more because I'm a novice wrt to data.
Perhaps those who are blessed as "naturals" in this sport simply have a better default butt calibration.
-Mike
#2430
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Something that goes along with this discussion that I've been doing a lot with people lately is to write down what level of braking they are doing at each corner and then see if the data matches that. If yoy think you are doing a 7 pedal (out of 10), are you really braking at 70%? Lots of times on the soft spots, people overbrake because their perception doesn't match what they are doing.
Like steering speed, many people have an idea that there is ONE level of brake pressure (or worse, ONE level of brake pressure that is optimal) for ALL corners...
Tom Long, Jim Pace, Ross and I all are extremely specific about the desired "level" (on a scale from 1 to 10, 10 being threshold, INTO the ABS) braking for each corner, mainly depending on how much steering, elevation change and lateral loads acting on the car at THAT particular moment.
Your method is a useful way for those who are not "naturals" to begin calibrating their feet (and a$$) to more closely align with what they are ACTUALLY doing.
I have found that my perception of nearly everything I do on the track is wrong, or perhaps better said as less than accurate.
As a professional scientist, I'm generally good at objective observation, but at the track, that all goes out the window when I'm driving at speed.
Data is the only practical way to solve it. Coaching can help, but most of us can't afford a coach all the time. Data is required, at least for me, to calibrate my own butt as that is the only way I'm going to execute better.
With data and external video, I've learned:
1) I don't get on the gas as early as I think.
2) I don't get on the gas as hard as I think.
3) I don't brake as late as I think
4) I don't apex nearly as well as I think
5) It wouldn't surprise me at all if I'm not 100% on the brakes (wrt the above discussion).
Perhaps those who are blessed as "naturals" in this sport simply have a better default butt calibration.
-Mike
As a professional scientist, I'm generally good at objective observation, but at the track, that all goes out the window when I'm driving at speed.
Data is the only practical way to solve it. Coaching can help, but most of us can't afford a coach all the time. Data is required, at least for me, to calibrate my own butt as that is the only way I'm going to execute better.
With data and external video, I've learned:
1) I don't get on the gas as early as I think.
2) I don't get on the gas as hard as I think.
3) I don't brake as late as I think
4) I don't apex nearly as well as I think
5) It wouldn't surprise me at all if I'm not 100% on the brakes (wrt the above discussion).
Perhaps those who are blessed as "naturals" in this sport simply have a better default butt calibration.
-Mike
Data allows folks to verify what they did WAS, in fact, what they did. And, more importantly, where it WAS NOT.
The most effective way to self coach is to review data and/or data-laden video to identify WHERE and HOW what you DID was MOST different from what you were TRYING to do! This points out clearly the NEXT area to work on.
As drivers progress, they get stuck. Where coaching really helps a number of these quicker folks (and, even the QUICKEST) is to validate (IN FACT) that what they are doing IS the "best execution of fundamental skills."
I spent all day yesterday recording material with Ross Bentley and we constantly came back this. To move forward, the fundamentals MUST be strong and MUST be executed with the same efficiency, amplitude and timing EVERY time. Once that is in place, you can more easily learn to "become comfortable being uncomfortable," which is what any good coach is going to ask you to do...
Bruce MacInnes said that except for generational talents (examples include, but are not limited to Nuvolari, Fangio, Moss, Stewart, Lauda, Prost, Senna, Schumacher and Vettel), a well studied and extremely well mentored "normal" talent can almost every time beat the unstudied, not well mentored "natural."
And he has more experience first hand with this than all of us combined...