enduro911

Finn, can you tell me where you heard about Massa's revs being limited. That's something I hadn't heard. Thanks. BTW, I would also like to know what goes into being a "faux" champion. I have a feeling that if the definition is broad enough in scope, rightly labeling some champions as such is bound to royally **** off some people and send them and others into denial. That said, just wondering...

On a lighter note, LTC, has Sato ever considered monster trucks? He'd be excellent! His truck could be called the Carbon Crushing Kamakazi.

multi21

At McLaren it's call, "Mix 4, save fuel". At Ferrari it's called, "Your teammate is faster than you", at Red Bull it's called, "ENGINE IS DOWN ON POWER, ENGINE IN DOWN ON POWER".

enduro911

And what happens if the equipment available to each driver isn't equal, but there aren't any team orders? Last time it happened was with Lewis and Heikki last year, so it is still an issue. Does that immediately place the driver into the "faux" category? Wayne?

Flying Finn

It was revealed in FIA hearings regarding Hockenheim team orders.

Ferrari had ordered both drivers to lower their revs when they had 1-2 lead but later they gave Alonso a permit to raise his revs again (but kept Massa's revs lower).

I believe Wayne is the father of 'Faux Champion" which he created to describe Schumi. It describes the situation at Ferrari when Schumi was there and everything was geared towards Schumi, he always had the spare car, Barichello was asked to move over etc. etc.

Now however when Massa was asked to move over and let Alonso pass, Wayne somehow is convinced it's different from the "pass" Schumi made when Barichello was asked to move over...
Why? Because.

multi21

ltc

Hard to read this and not laugh...seems like time does heal all wounds...

http://www.formula1.com/news/features/2010/9/11285.html

A.Wayne

Finn where is the link .. dis FIA sumting ....................



Ahhh , I have already given my view on such and of course Schumi is the original faux champion..

A faux champion is one who is made to look fast , artificially so and of course made into a WDC... F1 currently has 2 Faux Champions , Schumacher and Button ..

Alonso doesn't need help to be faster than Massa nor Fisi and i have never agreed with the team orders, from any team, especially when they ( Ferrari ) Had Massa move over in Brasil for Kimi... What i said was, what happened in Germany was different than the Schumacher /barichello/Irvine/ Lehto/Brundle situations and i stated why at the time ...

Prediciting Schumacher' s failure this year was easy, he was never really that fast ... well if you paid attn and to think many here compared him to Senna and actually thought he was better ( Pete) .. ROFL ..


Drivers getting Faux assistance this year ...

1. Button
2. Vettel
3. Schumacher

Drivers in the hunt who will win without faux assistance :

1. Alonso
2. Webbo
3. Hamilton







Red Bull: Ferrari the main threat now

By Jonathan Noble Thursday, September 23rd 2010, 15:18 GMT

Red Bull Racing thinks it is now Ferrari - and not McLaren – that poses the greatest threat to its world championship ambitions this season.

Although the title fight has swung back and forth between the Milton Keynes outfit and McLaren throughout the majority of the season, Red Bull Racing team principal Christian Horner thinks his outfit's biggest concern now is Fernando Alonso.

On the back of Alonso's victory in the Italian Grand Prix, the Spaniard has thrust himself back into title contention.

And, with Ferrari having scored the most points out of any team in the last four races, Horner thinks the title situation has moved away from a straight fight between his outfit and McLaren.

"I see Ferrari as the biggest threat, to be honest," said Horner ahead of the Singapore Grand Prix. "They have a quick car, and arguably they have been the closest to us since halfway through the year.

"They had a bit of bad luck in the middle of the year around Valencia and Silverstone, but in Hockenheim they were quick, and they were closest to us in Budapest. Spa didn't go their way but they were quick again in Monza, so arguably I see Ferrari as the biggest challenge.

"But we are focused on our own performance. We cannot dictate what they do, and rather than spending time and energy worrying about what others are doing, we have tended to focus more on ourselves."

The Ferrari threat is more potent because only one of their drivers has a realistic chance of the title – but Horner does not think Ferrari's situation will make him change his team's stance of treating both his racers equally.

"They are playing a slightly different game," said Horner. "But ultimately we have to beat everybody. I would rather have two guys competing for the championship than one, and we will continue to support our guys as fairly and equally as we possibly can."

Horner's belief that it is Alonso who is now his team's biggest threat comes after Lewis Hamilton also reckoned Ferrari was also McLaren's main opposition.

"People have asked who are my closest rivals - obviously my team-mate Jenson [Button] and then Fernando [Alonso] and probably Mark [Webber], because he is leading the championship.

"Ferrari have really stepped up their game and seem to be very competitive at the moment. I am assuming that they are our closest rival at the moment."

multi21

Good thing your posts are only good for laughs and not factually correct. Schumacher is 41 years old and 3 years off from racing in a DONKEY CART and in an era where there is no testing. That would be hard for anyone, yet he set his ego aside, a 7 time WDC and came back. Doubt little Miss Sunshine would have done the same.

And your list of "WINS without Assistance"....

Alonso: -- German GP, Massa told to lower revs and move over.

Webber: Italian GP, Vettel mysteriously has loss of power and Webber goes by. Vettel was on a fresh engine and sets fast lap after fast lap immediately afterwards.

Hamilton: Turkish GP: Button goes by Hamilton for the lead and is immediately told to "Save Fuel, save fuel" and drops back almost half a straight away immediately there after (after Vettel and Webber hit each other).



Your turn Sparticus.... start shoveling the BS

ltc

I see Webber having an advantage engine reliability, given he has used 6 vs Alonso's 8 at this point.
Of course Ferrari was given a reliability upgrade earlier in the season, so perhaps the used engines will last from here out... Or perhaps Massa will sit out a race and give Alonso a new engine.

The question will be who suffers a DNF first...that will probably decide the WDC.

Flying Finn

What is with you and your links every time something is said against your hero Alonso?

I was at the FIA hearing and heard it myself but since you never "believe" anything against Alonso and trust anything that is written in internets, google it, I'm sure it's there somewhere.

RajDatta

So you are saying, you will start rooting for Alonso soon? lol

theporscheguy

Alonso lost a little time in practice 2, however tomorrow will tell the story. RB looks very tough.

A.Wayne

Testy there Finn... testyyyyyy ! ................ Am i missing sumting more than KR not being in F1 ?

Ray............... practice results ?

enduro911

Finn/Pete/Wayne, thanks for the "faux" clarification. I'm not sure I like the definition though, leaves the door open to criticize even good drivers, like Schumacher (yes Wayne, we know you don't think he's quick), Hamilton and Alonso (as Pete mentioned). Webber in my opinion is above average, but he also fits right in due to the team orders...kinda tough to argue how Vettel could just had an engine splutter and then get right to finishing better than Webber. If the door is open to anything that makes a driver into a WC that his teammate did not receive, let's not forget Honda's preference for certain drivers at certain times in the 80s, which would make the Almighty Senna a definite "faux" champion. Of course no one in their right mind is going to admit to that.............will they?

BTW welcome back Nick Heidfeld. Good to see that Sauber finally got somebody to replace Slow Pedro.

ltc

If Alonso wins the 2010 WDC, I will resign as a Moderator and leave Rennlist and this forum, buy a Panamera, run a hose from the exhaust into the cabin and wait for death due to CO poisoning, then have my body transferred to a Cayenne which is then placed onto a barge, set ablaze and cast off into the Atlantic Ocean in a southerly direction towards Sir A.Wayne...