amaist

For your first DE flush the break fluid and bring the car stock. You may want to bring a set of race pads for the front in case the fading gets too bad. It depends on how aggressive you are going to drive and if there will be enough room for you to burn up the stock pads. Often the green/beginner group has too much slow traffic to have dramatic braking from 130 mph to 60 mph every lap. Starting out on race pads for the first DE may be a bit annoying. They will stop you fine but if you don't get enough temperature in them they will squeal like wounded pigs.

The most important step is to show up at the track. And start talking to experience people. Track rats will bore you to death constantly talking about the car stuff and you will learn a lot very quickly.

P.S. if you have a friend with an enclosed trailer you can store the stuff you take out of the car there for the event. If not bring a tarp which you put both over and under your stuff. Make sure to secure it so that the wind does not blow it open during a sudden rain storm.

mark kibort

good points about just getting track time in whatever you got for a while.

If you are not planning on racing in a class with the same type of car, then the 928 is a un-real bargan. The stock euro 80 to 85 will put out 275rwhp with a set of headers, and with ONLY gutting it, you can get it down to 2700lbs dry.
put on some big wheels and tires with no body work, a cheap sport suspension and off you go. The entire project is about 14 to 18K depending on how fast you want to go. Dependabilty is great and once you work on a 928, you see how evolved the design is, way ahead of its time back in 1980. There are down sides, but if you dont want to replace any suspension components, no frame reinforcements, and no engine mods. (like titanium retainers for e30s, etc), you have a car that can be driven to the track, relatively fast, and very stout.

Our gang out here started with some 928s and e30s. the 928s ended up going toward the 928S4s (still bought today at near $5-8k) and the e30s ended up going e36 and e46. all of us are still in the same time range over the years, with the 928 being near 1/2 the cost and still able to be driven to the track.

Much of the car choice depends on what you want to drive or what you have already. personally, I kind of like beating up a 5 liter v8 that is way under utilized than a 2.3 4 banger with 100hp/liter. I also like the V8 sound better. However, the BMW platform is a much more turney car, which is really fun too.

I have hundreds of hours of racing , DE'ing around with BMWs and 911s. We all have a great time, run some respectable times, have our own advantages. the bottomline for me was cost and upward mod potential cost. the 928 worked best for me. Plus, I know the car inside and out . Still, I am able to drive the car to the races, and have been doing so for 10 years now, thought it might not be for everyone

What ever you pick, just make sure the car is save and work on advancing your skill sets. video as much as you can. I dont think a stock car would last more than one even as it did with us in the early '90s. after the first event (I even have video of that ) we were HOOKED. I immediately traded in the old bouncy soft stock suspension to the sport stuff (still street stock), and some bigger tires and wheels. Then, as we got more into it, 3-4 months later, engine mods for hp gains. 188rwhp went to 200, to 243 to 285 and the car got lighter and racing in club events started 2 years later. Its a ton of fun and very addictive. Personally, I think its very valuable to drive a crappy car at first and learn how the mods fix things up. your drving improves and and so does the car in an accelerated way as you now know what works and what doesnt, and their effects on performance. Some think its better to just jump in a race car. It might be, but in the end, quality track time will be what drives your ability levels up.

Just some random thoughs on the topic.

mk

Veloce Raptor

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JClark

Some of you will agree with this, but I dont think it's ever too soon to put in race pads. It's one less big thing that the student has to worry about.

Some people think novice's should experience brake fade, but the person sitting shotgun would probably to disagree.

BostonDMD

Well..... from our meeting this morning, I would say my friend is pretty excited about our sport......

I advice him to do several DEs with his 330, in fact, I invited him to sign up for the same event in NHMS next Saturday with Com Sports Car Club......

We would run in the same instructed group......

After that he can make a more appropriate decision which direction to take regarding a dedicated track car....

Thanks for all your help.....

MUSSBERGER

I think there was one of each wadded up at T-bolt yesterday. That doesn't help.

amaist

Either way it will be fine.

I rode shotgun with total beginners as an instructor. As the student was driving within their capabilities small amounts of brake fade did not affect much. It was easy to feel from the passenger seat but not dramatic. It provided another learning moment and something I could teach to the student.

I would probably advise race pads for a 3 day school. By the end of the 3rd day enough will be learned to go faster requiring pads that don't melt.

weneversleep

Coming in late to the thread, but as someone who tracks an E36 M3, one huge advantage over a 911, or almost any other track-worthy car, is the amount of interior space for hauling track stuff. No trailer or whatever required. Still amazes me every time I load up. I still get comments when I unload my 4 tires from the backseat...

BC

I just bought an E30. 1990 325i. The rust is not an issue as it was a TX/CA car. So I have a nearly perfect, straight car with a near perfect interior for 2k.

BUT... Every single piece under the body needs replacing. I knew this as I had researched a bit before purchase. It is for a DD that I will play around with in DE, while I finish my never ending Porsche project.

The rubber and parts prices are insanely low compared to the Por$che prices. Even if you go to aftermarket parts (more on that next paragraph) you are still at half or 1/3rd the prices of porsche parts for shocks, strut supports, shock tops, camber plates, THR Lolly-pops, etc. Brakes? I am sure some upgrade is needed, but I don't know yet. Still getting the stock stuff upgraded or replaced.

Now - I can't remember who said it, but someone said the amount of aftermarket options are HUGE, and you don't know whats good and bad. SO TRUE. 4 options for lolly-pops (Control arm bushings - WEAK link in the E30 from what I understand) Three different rear shock top options, and three OEM suppliers for actual control arms. 9 different Sway bar kits.

I always lamented that the 928 didn't have many options. Now we have one, maybe two options for stuff - but the E30 options (and even more so the E36) are just silly.

Basically, I may just get a "kit" from one supplier. Shocks, Springs, shock/strut tops, sway bars, etc.

You can always pick and choose - but the time involved seems large.

Fun Car. Even with every single piece of rubber or suspension wear item loose or needing replacement. Should be fun.

JDB25

Thanks guys. Subject writing in again.

Planning on attending second DE this weekend in the 330i. Already looking forward to it (which is why I'm up at almost 12:30 when I know I have to be back up in 5 hours).

Plan on looking in to racing pads this week, but might have to run with the stock BMW pads (brand new after last DE event) given time constraints this week.

Truly appreciate the input. I know I'm an addict already - just have to convince my Wife I can somehow feed my addiction without too much impact on the family (like I said, it matters . . .)

FYI - my 2003 330i has the "sport package" but it's not the ZHP package with 6 speed and 10 more bhp. Had I known that existed when I bought my car CPO, would have waited for the ZHP.

mark kibort

120 race days, almost always driven to the track, with 4 315x18s !
plus, jack, tent, tools, spares, 2 5 gallon gas cans, nos bottle for air,cooler, clothes bag, driver gear , helmet, etc. all in a porsche 928. the porsche race car station wagon! The e36 is pretty good in that respect too, just not big enough for the BIG tires
mk

mooty

i said it.
you should talk to some shops about the KITS. even some supposedly good names have prob. ground control sway bar was ill fitting on my car. apparently that batch has some issues.

BC

Thanks again for your advice mooty. I'm just going to try and get the best of each piece. Bilstein shocks/inserts, some stiff springs (maybe H&R race, unless there are better ones that are a tad better for DD use) and good rubber/urethane. The rear subframe is doing the rumba, and the drive shaft can mix eggs in the cabin if I get on it at the torque peek. Fun!

ShaunATL

I recommend calling Bimmerworld. You can let them know what your plans/goals are for the car and they'll provide a setup (either all at once, or in "stages") to get it set up properly for you.

RickBetterley

So, Paolo - you have reached the 'my friends are asking me what kind of DE car to get' stage. I remember when you were asking those questions.
As for the answer (or at least, my opinion) - tell him to drive what he loves. Some of us always loved Porsches, others BMWs (or both). I had to make the '944 Turbo or 911 coupe' decision and the best advice I got was 'what do you see yourself in?'
It was a 911, of course.
BTW, keep in mind my 1984 911 coupe is for sale (in NC, but basically unused since I sold it).