To club race or not to club race. all opinions and suggestions welcomed!!
03-03-2009, 01:30 AM
#47
Burning Brakes
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A++++++ for the 44 or 24 - come race 944spec or cup, havin a blast ! Here is a video at the Watkins Glen .. iT was a good start til i was too hot into the bus stop or i should say the brakes were too cold !
http://vimeo.com/1927788
http://vimeo.com/1927788
03-03-2009, 03:07 AM
#48
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Cool video! Here's some more stuff...
Race start at Gateway: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVaiix7ossU&fmt=18
2008 Season Highlights: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7ofRS0OQuE
Race start at Gateway: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVaiix7ossU&fmt=18
2008 Season Highlights: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7ofRS0OQuE
03-03-2009, 03:49 AM
#49
Ok, here's the situation. I first started doing DE's a few years ago in my 2002 996 C4 and since then I have done between 40 and 50 days and currently drive a 997 GT3 (see avatar). Last year I also did the Bertil Roos 5 day racing school at VIR and am eligible for an SCCA license. I currently do most of my DE's with the metro club and run in the black group.
This year I am seriously considering taking it to the next level and participating in club racing with the Porsche club and or SCCA/NASA. Now here is the dilemma. I LOVE my 997 GT3 and even though I have only had it for about a year and a half it would break my heart to get rid of it. If I were to club race the only economically responsible thing to do would be to sell that and buy a race prepared car.
The second dilemma I am faced with if I chose to go this route is what kind of car to buy. My friend Rick DeMan who currently does all of the work on my GT3 suggests that I should get a race prepared Boxster. He and his staff have actually built quite a few of them and economically they seem to make sense. But the problem here is that what originally drew me to Porsche was the beauty of the 911! Not that there is anything wrong with the Boxster I just love driving a 911. Is it silly to go the route of a 996 cup car and run in the GTC3 group? Or does it make sense to buy an older air cooled 911? I would guess that buying a Boxster my maintenance costs would be the least of all the above mentioned choices. Or of course I could do none of the above and just do DE's for another year.
PLEASE HELP!!
This year I am seriously considering taking it to the next level and participating in club racing with the Porsche club and or SCCA/NASA. Now here is the dilemma. I LOVE my 997 GT3 and even though I have only had it for about a year and a half it would break my heart to get rid of it. If I were to club race the only economically responsible thing to do would be to sell that and buy a race prepared car.
The second dilemma I am faced with if I chose to go this route is what kind of car to buy. My friend Rick DeMan who currently does all of the work on my GT3 suggests that I should get a race prepared Boxster. He and his staff have actually built quite a few of them and economically they seem to make sense. But the problem here is that what originally drew me to Porsche was the beauty of the 911! Not that there is anything wrong with the Boxster I just love driving a 911. Is it silly to go the route of a 996 cup car and run in the GTC3 group? Or does it make sense to buy an older air cooled 911? I would guess that buying a Boxster my maintenance costs would be the least of all the above mentioned choices. Or of course I could do none of the above and just do DE's for another year.
PLEASE HELP!!
I think you might be shocked if you knew the actual costs of competitively "racing" a Cup car. I use the term "competitive' because you will want to be competitive whether you know it or not. I don't know anyone who wants to be last in Class. So, once you accept that you will want to win, open your wallet very wide.
Add up the cost of racing slicks, fuel, track support, hotel and meals, maintenance/repairs, reserve for engine rebuild, entry fees etc, and you're easily talking $5K-$7K per event. Go to the Cup Car Forum and ask. That's hugely different than racing a Boxter in a Spec Class. You would get more meaningful feedback if people knew what annual budget you had in mind for racing.
FWIW, I've found that racers generally fall into one of the following two categories. (1) they love speed and want to go really fast --maybe faster than anyone else on the track. They don't care if there's anyone else in their Class as long as they're going fast. They're addicted to speed and speed is addicting! (2) speed is less important than competition with other cars in Class, especially other cars of equal capability where the outcome of the race can be attributed to driver skill rather than a better car. This group is addicted to competition.
There's no right or wrong here. You just need to figure out what rings your bell.
Racing and experiencing "competition" doesn't have to be exceedingly expensive (e.g. Spec Boxter Class). Just going out to the track and going fast doesn't have to be expensive either (take the GT3 out to a DE and go pedal to the metal). But being competitive in a fast Class means Big Bucks (as referred to above).
Unless you have unlimited means, I would recommend proceeding slowly in making any decisions and err on the conservative side. Personally, I think the Spec Boxter route would be a great one. The on-going costs are nominal. If you don't like the car, it's easily saleable, even in this market. It's amazing to me how fast the BSR Class is. And, it's a very competitive Class.
Good luck with whatever you decide.
Oh, I almost forgot, I started with a street GT3 and eventually sold it, got a race car and never looked back.
03-03-2009, 03:50 AM
#50
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I would second everything LV Dell has said. Very good advice.
I think a stock class 964 like Tim Costa's is absolutely the way to go for entering club racing. It provides an excellent balance between speed, fun, cost of the car and operating cost. I have been club racing a 993 for several years and those are also great cars though less competive than the 964s. These later generation air-cooled cars have lots of power and are properly fast, and are generally very tough and reliable with relatively low operating costs. The early generation air-cooled cars like the SCs and Carreras are also fantastic and one of those would also be a great choice.
The GTC3 cars are awesome, but so is the operating cost so for this reason I wouldn't start with one of these.
The Boxster spec is great and the cars are very fun and well balanced. I actually owned one of the very first ones before the spec existed and which was used as one of the test cars. The handling was great, though I found it very lacking in power compared to my 993 and 964 and I think you may find the same thing. The operating cost is also uncertain with the self-destructing motors. It does provide a lot of close racing like 944 spec, however, so there are some definite benefits here.
The 944 spec cars provide great close racing, but coming from a 997 GT3 you will feel like you are standing still. A better use for a 944 is the 24 Hours of LeMons...like our car from the last event at Thunderhill...ducking now.
I think a stock class 964 like Tim Costa's is absolutely the way to go for entering club racing. It provides an excellent balance between speed, fun, cost of the car and operating cost. I have been club racing a 993 for several years and those are also great cars though less competive than the 964s. These later generation air-cooled cars have lots of power and are properly fast, and are generally very tough and reliable with relatively low operating costs. The early generation air-cooled cars like the SCs and Carreras are also fantastic and one of those would also be a great choice.
The GTC3 cars are awesome, but so is the operating cost so for this reason I wouldn't start with one of these.
The Boxster spec is great and the cars are very fun and well balanced. I actually owned one of the very first ones before the spec existed and which was used as one of the test cars. The handling was great, though I found it very lacking in power compared to my 993 and 964 and I think you may find the same thing. The operating cost is also uncertain with the self-destructing motors. It does provide a lot of close racing like 944 spec, however, so there are some definite benefits here.
The 944 spec cars provide great close racing, but coming from a 997 GT3 you will feel like you are standing still. A better use for a 944 is the 24 Hours of LeMons...like our car from the last event at Thunderhill...ducking now.
03-03-2009, 08:58 AM
#52
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i really do appreciate all of the input that i have gotten in just a short time. its amazing the power of Rennlist! At this point I have ruled out a 996 gtc3 cup car because everyone says the costs just add up too quickly. the prudent thing to do is REDUCE costs and not increase them seeing that i work for CITIGROUP. (it wasnt me who caused this mess!) Selling the 2002 C4 Cab may yield me about ~$30,000 seeing that it only has 28k miles on it and its in pristine condition. I could put that towards buying a Boxster Stock class car whch Rick has been building or buy a sweet car like Tim's 964. Then I could keep the GT3 for a bit longer. The 996 Cab is at my dad's in Savannah and I've literally drivin it twice in 2008 so I dont think that i would miss it.
As far as my budget is concerned I dont have one per se, that's due to the fact that I am single and have no children. I paid cash for the GT3 so anything that I would potentially sell it for goes right to me. Thats not to say that I want to be irrisponsible with my money.
One last thing, I have never driven an older model air cooled 911 before. Should this be any sort of determining factor in buying a 964 vs a Stock F class Boxster?
As far as my budget is concerned I dont have one per se, that's due to the fact that I am single and have no children. I paid cash for the GT3 so anything that I would potentially sell it for goes right to me. Thats not to say that I want to be irrisponsible with my money.
One last thing, I have never driven an older model air cooled 911 before. Should this be any sort of determining factor in buying a 964 vs a Stock F class Boxster?
03-03-2009, 09:26 AM
#53
Nordschleife Master
I do miss my GT3 terribly as I have said but I do NOT regret my decision.
03-03-2009, 09:52 AM
#54
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03-03-2009, 10:10 AM
#55
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Let's just say that with the newer technology like the GT3 I was able to be VERY fast with the level of talent I have but in the RSA it requires not only that talent but a serious workout. You will fee like you went 12 rounds when you are done and that is what is very rewarding to me. The handling is nowhere near the GT3. The steering response is nowhere near the GT3. The power is nowhere near the GT3. However, I feel like I did more in my RSA when I turned that "prefect" lap/session/race than the GT3. Very rewarding for me.
I do miss my GT3 terribly as I have said but I do NOT regret my decision.
I do miss my GT3 terribly as I have said but I do NOT regret my decision.
03-03-2009, 10:15 AM
#56
Nordschleife Master
I thought you already knew that I did driver coaching/instruction.
Splinter Cell Racing is a group of track addicts that I meet with every Saturday locally. The name we came up with is more of an inside joke than anything pertinent to the track itself.
03-03-2009, 10:40 AM
#57
Burning Brakes
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Wow, what a dream, single, no kids, wants to race. I remember those days, unfortunately, I didn't have the means to buy a car back then.
Since you are not an air-cooled guy, then focus on a boxter or 996. Something like Poetl's car in the classifieds will drive a lot like your GT3.
Since you are not an air-cooled guy, then focus on a boxter or 996. Something like Poetl's car in the classifieds will drive a lot like your GT3.
03-03-2009, 10:57 AM
#58
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Wow, what a dream, single, no kids, wants to race. I remember those days, unfortunately, I didn't have the means to buy a car back then.
Since you are not an air-cooled guy, then focus on a boxter or 996. Something like Poetl's car in the classifieds will drive a lot like your GT3.
Since you are not an air-cooled guy, then focus on a boxter or 996. Something like Poetl's car in the classifieds will drive a lot like your GT3.
i have no problems with moving to an air cooled car. i guess for now the best thing to do is "demo" a couple of cars asap and then make a decision. in the meantime i should sell the 2002 c4 cab and i can ear mark that cash for racing.
03-03-2009, 12:33 PM
#60
Racer
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