dougdep

I thought I might try and get this thread back on course and away from the "squabbling".

i started this thread in order to seek out some great advice and suggestions from the many Rennlist members that frequent this forum. Indeed I have received many! The amount of help that one can find here really is incredible. The decision whether or not to club race at this point is purely financial at this point. If i were to I would be inclined to go with a 964 (someone else's project) or a stock Boxster. In this current ecnomic environment I may just keep on doing more DE's this year, primarily open track days, and get a lot more experience. I am still on the fence, but the thought of spending 3-5 thousand dollars every race weekend seems to be quite a bit!

Brian P

FWIW, the costs of running in a DE versus running at a race aren't all that different. The main difference in cost is the entry fee.

gums

Back in the days before I was actually racing, I recall telling a buddy that I was going to race when I had everything in order and could afford to do it right. His response was, "well, then, you'll never race."
He was so right, and I quickly dove in.

FredC

and tires, lots of tires.

Peter Carroll/Toronto

In theory. Until something brakes.

gums

...or crashes...

Astroman

+1

It's strange to hear people use the excuse that club racing is too expensive (relative to DE). It does NOT HAVE TO BE. I've built my race car on a pretty slim budget. And I have a buddy that has done the same on almost no budget at all. You all would be shocked to know what he does for a living, and I've got a ton of respect for him because of it.

Getting out and racing does not have to equate to driving a cup car on fresh slicks. Campaigning a Spec 944 would be WAY WAY cheaper than DE'ing ANY water cooled 911. No doubt about it.

It's fine to say that you just don't want to race a 944 (I wouldn't), and would rather DE a street GT3. But while trailering that GT3 with giant Hoosiers to the track, please don't say that racing is too expensive. It drives me crazy.

And BTW, this post is NOT directed at anybody in particular. No offense to anybody with a 944 or GT3.

Brian P

I don't think the tire budget is all that different if you aren't running slicks. When I was doing DE's, I would only get about 7 days (28 heat cycles) on my R-compounds. With racing, maybe that goes down by about 1 day to roughly 24 heat cycles.

As far as things breaking (or crashing), I think the probabilities of those are roughly the same at racing and DE'ing.

FredC

The risk of accident is greater in racing than in DEs because of passing without signals. When do you go 2 wide in the kink at Road America during a DE?

I find that the cost of repairs is generally greater in racing than in DEs.

Parts generally break down more often in racing than in DEs because racing simply isn't as predictable and smooth a DEing. Involuntary curb hops and evasive off track excursions are examples of race (though some people do that in DEs...) maneuvers that will accelerate wear and tear of parts.

Car for car (e.g. DEing a 911SC VS CRing a 911SC) racing will cost more in tires because racers tend to not take the risk of running bald tires or tires that may cord during a race (and i am not even bringing up the competitive pressure of running stickers or fresh tires for qualifying or races).

my 2 cents so that the original poster does not get a false sense of security.

Weston

It's not uncommon to see people spend more money on DE and Time Trial cars than most wheel-to-wheel racers. Event and repair costs may be higher, but the car purchase costs and performance upgrades can be kept in check without sacrificing fun (in fact, it's quite a bit more fun). When you're driving alone (or at DE / TT distances), you have to go really fast to keep it interesting, and you just keep getting used to the speed and wanting more. It's an endless cycle, and I've been there myself. But if you're racing in a competitive class and approaching a corner with other cars just inches away and fighting you for position, you really don't care about raw speed, so long as your competition has about the same performance as you do. I've found that to be far more exciting, challenging, and fulfilling than time trialing on the same track with twice the power:weight ratio. Combine that close competition with a low cost car, and that's what makes 944-Spec fun and exciting... I would not race an expensive car like a 911 as close or as hard as I race my 944. Myself and many others have given up faster and more expensive track cars to race lowly 944's, and it is definitely one of the better and more satisfying decisions that I've made.

Astroman

+1000. Great points.

MarkM

I think you guys are crazy. Racing is much more expensive than DE's for 98% of us. There are exceptions of course, and I know more than one person who makes a point of racing for almost free, but they are the exception.

Instead of comparing 944's to cup cars, compare campaining a 944 for a season of racing to a DE season. If they come out the same, then you are forgetting something major, like the 3 years of investment to get the car set up right.

If the costs are still the same, and you aren't a backmarker, then let me know your formula and I'll consider adopting that approach.

Brian P

I agree that if you still need to set up the car, then that takes $$$. However, I think the original poster was considering buying someone's already set up 964 (former class winning car) or a boxster from Rick DeMan. Rick has already set up a good handful of these cars, and if you get one, it would be set up extremely well for racing. So, in either situation, there wouldn't be ongoing expenses trying to figure out how to get the car set up.

Brian P

We should have more hard data this year as PCA is starting to keep better records of incidents in DE. My experience has been that the number of accidents are about the same with racing having more multiple car accidents and DE having more single car accidents.

Also, a driver can more or less control the passing issues by protecting the line or not contesting a corner.

I still think the difference is only a few heat cycles. Granted, that comes out to about $100 for a three-day event.

Astroman

How many people are still DE'ing a 944 or an old 911?? We are a dying breed (at least in my region of the country). Getting blasted off the track by Corvettes at DE's just wasn't cutting it for me any more.

Of course, racing a 944 is more expensive than DE'ing a 944. But unless you are already DE'ing a 944 (rare), there are MANY other less expensive options out there if you really want to race. It just depends on your priorities...