ZAPmobile

I brought this topic up in the Hoosier A6 thread, but I think it merits its own discussion.

Why do some racers put down DE? I should start by saying I am a former racer and have been around racing for decades as a driver. I've been taught by some of the best road racers out there, and I have also crewed for some of the pro teams. So, don't get me wrong — I love racing. I also love DE.

I think people who do either one are having a ball. There are some different skill sets, for sure, but just because you race, does that automatically mean you are a better driver than all drivers in DE? Better than some, absolutely, but all?

Part of my premise in the other thread is that racing is very expensive. Many of us have cut back because of that expense and do DE instead. With this economy, you will probably see even more people cutting back from racing in favor of more DE or cutting the track out completely.

So, again, why do some racers put down DE?

C.J. Ichiban

some people don't like congo lines and being organized...to each his own. if you're on the track having a good time, who cares?

I do however think its funny when people refer to a "racing budget" that translates to them doing DE.

but that is more in the same sense as people who get annoyed over pronunciation of porsch or porsche

Van

Because DE is for sissies.

Seriously, I like DEs too - but now that I race, I don't take them as "seriously" as I used to. I also really enjoy instructing, so DEs will always have a place for me.

Veloce Raptor

+1 to all the above

Bryan Watts

I'm still wondering where anyone put down DE's to spark your post on that thread...

You've gotta be REALLY sensitive to take a suggestion not to waste very fast wearing competition tires in a non-competitive environment as a "put down" of DE's.

Since you've started another thread, I'll bring over my question that I asked you over there:

A.Wayne

DE = Dead End

DrJupeman

I DE'd for 10+ years before going racing. My perspective is that most "DE lifers" think they are hot ****. When you go racing, you quickly learn who is and who is not. It is the "hot ****" DE attitude that I think racers react to. Obviously, not all DEers have this attitude. I did, though. I know my friends did, too, and when I sit and talk to people at DEs, they have it, also ("that guy couldn't catch me, blah blah..") The DEers who are competitive in DE might be a way to summarize the personality I'm referring to.

A good quote here on RL is that DE is to racing as paintball is to real combat. You can be a paintball super-star, which is quite an accomplishment, but until you face the heat against real bullets, so what?

Generally, racers are faster, there is higher risk, and there is pride on the line. These things bring a lot of ego with them. Ego creates the racer superiority attitude.

Now, all this said, club racers like myself who have their own superiority complex over DE need to realize that we are the bottom rung of racing. There is always someone better! I will say, though, that if a pro racer taunted me, I wouldn't get my panties all in a knot about it. DE folks shouldn't, either (or perhaps they do because they feel inferior? ).

THXBABE

Well done VR

stuttgart46

I think it's because we see them taking up track time during a race weekend. The perception may change within some people as we may need DE groups to help pay for race weekends in the very near future.

C.J. Ichiban

that is a nice avatar isn't it?

M758

Too many times DE guys talk about "racing" this guy or another guy. All to often they act and talk as if what they are doing is racing instead of just drving fast. Most have no ideal what racing is like. A very few do and used to race, but chose not to any more.

The thing is that DE is a fine activity, but when I think about DE is all about relaxation. You head out to the track when you want and drive as hard as you want. Want to take it easy and enjoy the sights and sounds of track. Fine. You want to drive around and focus more mental effort on sharing stories with friends fine. That is what DE is about. Non competive fun track days.

When I race things are different. I am always pushing or always working on something. My goal is always how can I get faster. Both me and the car. What does adjusting the sway by 5 mm going to do. What about a little more less camber? Is my competitor faster in that corner or does it just look that way. Where can I gain and edge?

The metal aspect even in practice is just so much different. Lap time are important. If I am down 0.5 to my competition I need to find it some place.

M758

Every race I have taken part in (some 90+) have had a DE on the same day.

As racer I like track time, but can't be on track all the time. I don't care who is in the other run groups. It could be racers or DE guys. Makes Zero difference to me.

David Danhof

DE is to racing like street driving is to DE.

Larry Herman

Arnie, I think that the answer is multi-faceted. First, there are those racers who put it down because "it ain't racing". Those would be the same type that once in PRO racing would put down PCA Club racing for that reason.

Then there are the racers who don't like the track restrictions that your average PCA DE has, such as 20 minute run groups, mandatory instructing or working etc. It makes testing and tuning really hard to accomplish. Also, the inability to pass at will makes it harder to maintain momentum lap after lap.

Finally there are the racers who cannot stand the pretentiousness of some DE drivers. Once you race, you realize that DE is not racing, and never will be. Close driving is not racing, and blowing off the rest of the group with your mega HP turbo does not make one a racer. Also no-one that I know drives nearly as hard at a DE than they do at a race. Most just don't realize this until they start racing.

That being said, I do like DEs. They give me a chance to polish my driving and experiment with new lines without the pressure of having to go fast. And because I am keeping just a little more in hand at a DE, I find that I make less driving mistakes than at a race (read that as being safer).

C.J. Ichiban

van- golf is for sissies. I think for people who actually avoid racing it's generally to avoid being measured comparatively. I had tire failures in my first 2 races ever, and felt like **** driving home- like I totally wasted my entire amount of planning and work until I realized I had 2 the next day...they went differently

I think about it like this, and maybe other people do too- racing really is a sport. DE is a hobby. both have their place, and more power to the racers who do instruct the people at DE.