Why Do Some Racers Find It Important to Put Down DE
12-05-2008, 01:43 PM
#47
Drifting
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You can never, ever convince me that racing and DE are at the same price point except for tires.
Some of the points that Dell already made are valid, but your looking at it from a "weekend" point of view. What happens between races are where alot of the other expenses are incurred. Wear and tear, parts, alignments, extra 2-3 sets of rims, better this and that. A DEer is not necessarily concerned with having everything perfect and an alignment after each race or oil changed or a fresh LSD or whatever.
Some of the points that Dell already made are valid, but your looking at it from a "weekend" point of view. What happens between races are where alot of the other expenses are incurred. Wear and tear, parts, alignments, extra 2-3 sets of rims, better this and that. A DEer is not necessarily concerned with having everything perfect and an alignment after each race or oil changed or a fresh LSD or whatever.
Exactly BECAUSE I have a very competitive nature, I can't imagine running DE's as a solution for saving $$. I'd rather keep the same budget and either run a car that isn't competitive with the latest and greatest or run a less expensive race car. I'd rather be racing, whether it's at the front or the back.
12-05-2008, 01:44 PM
#48
Race Director
There are many in DE that say.. "I would love to race, but...." Well quit you butts and just do it. Racing need not cost more than DE. Sure it can, but it does not need to.
If you have the desire to do it, just go and do it. To keep the budget in reasonable term you may need to get "slower" car. Soon you will see that is much more interesting to race a slow car in good competitive group than to DE a fast "super car" passing everyone in sight.
Now if have no desire to race that is fine too. Take DE for it is and that means a nice relaxing day at the track turning laps.
12-05-2008, 01:51 PM
#49
Nordschleife Master
Pete...like I said, it's the "etc, etc, etc" that gets you every time.
Bryan...maybe I have misunderstood you then. If your stance (pardon me for speaking for you) is "I would rather be uncompetitive and race than DE" then I think I understand where you are coming from now. Further, I seem to get now that you are trying to also say that if you WANT to follow that ideal, then you CAN make racing cost the same as DE. That makes more sense.
Bryan...maybe I have misunderstood you then. If your stance (pardon me for speaking for you) is "I would rather be uncompetitive and race than DE" then I think I understand where you are coming from now. Further, I seem to get now that you are trying to also say that if you WANT to follow that ideal, then you CAN make racing cost the same as DE. That makes more sense.
12-05-2008, 01:56 PM
#50
Rennlist Member
12-05-2008, 02:10 PM
#51
Rennlist Member
Just gleaning through this, and maybe someone brought it up, but there is another reason some of us can't race. Or used to and don't now. Health issues. I honestly don't think I could get race licensed RIGHT NOW. Again? Maybe. Personally, my diabetic condition has taken a right turn. (Or is it left turn.) Maybe other guys in my situation get a "wink, wink" from a doctor, but I won't. If I entered a race this weekend, I don't believe I'd be a hazard. But I take wheel-to-wheel (13/13 or for real) very seriously. Always have since I took my first green flag 25 years ago.
A DE (instructor) environment, or a private rental day, allows me to come and go on my own terms. If I want to skip a session, no big deal. Come in early, no big deal.
Here's to hoping the magic of modern medicine whips me back into shape and I can get back at it in '09........
A DE (instructor) environment, or a private rental day, allows me to come and go on my own terms. If I want to skip a session, no big deal. Come in early, no big deal.
Here's to hoping the magic of modern medicine whips me back into shape and I can get back at it in '09........
12-05-2008, 02:12 PM
#52
Rennlist Member
12-05-2008, 02:13 PM
#53
Rennlist Member
Pete...like I said, it's the "etc, etc, etc" that gets you every time.
Bryan...maybe I have misunderstood you then. If your stance (pardon me for speaking for you) is "I would rather be uncompetitive and race than DE" then I think I understand where you are coming from now. Further, I seem to get now that you are trying to also say that if you WANT to follow that ideal, then you CAN make racing cost the same as DE. That makes more sense.
Bryan...maybe I have misunderstood you then. If your stance (pardon me for speaking for you) is "I would rather be uncompetitive and race than DE" then I think I understand where you are coming from now. Further, I seem to get now that you are trying to also say that if you WANT to follow that ideal, then you CAN make racing cost the same as DE. That makes more sense.
I will be in the latter category with a safe but not maximized car as I will never be able to afford to win. Some will say, "what's the point of racing if you can't win, you might as well just do DEs?" To me the point is to have fun, I hope racing is fun on a different level, and I'll have a blast "running what I brung" as they say. See ya'll this Spring...
12-05-2008, 02:14 PM
#54
Rennlist Member
I'm surprised by the number of folks in this thread who say they need track support for PCA racing. WHY?
The % who would truly benefit (go from being off to being on the podium) from at-the-track alignment changes based on data interpretation (the best scenario I can think of for paying someone), has to be very small. Most probably spend the weekend chasing the car that is constantly changing based on those tweaks.
I generally agree with Bryan. The biggest difference in cost running my car at a DE vs. a race is the tires. Otherwise, Dell, why is there more hotel stay associated with a race than a DE? Oh, and I've taken to sleeping at the track for races, so almost no cost there if you don't want there to be.
The % who would truly benefit (go from being off to being on the podium) from at-the-track alignment changes based on data interpretation (the best scenario I can think of for paying someone), has to be very small. Most probably spend the weekend chasing the car that is constantly changing based on those tweaks.
I generally agree with Bryan. The biggest difference in cost running my car at a DE vs. a race is the tires. Otherwise, Dell, why is there more hotel stay associated with a race than a DE? Oh, and I've taken to sleeping at the track for races, so almost no cost there if you don't want there to be.
12-05-2008, 02:29 PM
#56
Drifting
I'm unfamiliar, Give me an example. What is the cost.
DE $400 except when I instruct. Then they are between $0 - $300.
_
911: Can you not race if you are Diabetic?
BTW: V.R. usually your Avitar makes me spit Diet Coke through my nose. This one makes me want to grab a wash cloth.
DE $400 except when I instruct. Then they are between $0 - $300.
_
911: Can you not race if you are Diabetic?
BTW: V.R. usually your Avitar makes me spit Diet Coke through my nose. This one makes me want to grab a wash cloth.
12-05-2008, 02:32 PM
#57
Rennlist Member
I'm unfamiliar, Give me an example. What is the cost.
DE $400 except when I instruct. Then they are between $0 - $300.
_
911: Can you not race if you are Diabetic?
BTW: V.R. usually your Avitar makes me spit Diet Coke through my nose. This one makes me want to grab a wash cloth.
DE $400 except when I instruct. Then they are between $0 - $300.
_
911: Can you not race if you are Diabetic?
BTW: V.R. usually your Avitar makes me spit Diet Coke through my nose. This one makes me want to grab a wash cloth.
Last edited by Veloce Raptor; 02-20-2009 at 07:16 PM.
12-05-2008, 02:36 PM
#58
Rennlist Member
You certainly can. But when you body is behaving one way, and it stabilized for a few years..............then gets out of whack pretty significantly all of a sudden.........I'm just not one for Dr. shopping until I get the result I want.
Bottom line is that sometimes I don't feel "all there". And it's pretty random. So it's better to just kinda sit on the sidelines for a bit.
Now the REAL reason I have not raced since '04 is from buying the "business from hell" in '05 that kept me working about 350 days a year until last summer. Then, of course, I have time again, but blood sugar counts through the roof!
Bottom line is that sometimes I don't feel "all there". And it's pretty random. So it's better to just kinda sit on the sidelines for a bit.
Now the REAL reason I have not raced since '04 is from buying the "business from hell" in '05 that kept me working about 350 days a year until last summer. Then, of course, I have time again, but blood sugar counts through the roof!
12-05-2008, 02:36 PM
#59
Rennlist Member
Apparently some racers put down DE-ers out of frigging ignorance and arrogance. I'm reading the dumbest crap ever in this thread. Like (1) racing costs the same as DE, and (2) DE guys don't race for fear of hurting their ego. What bull****.
Racing your daily or weekend driver isn't an option so how can you possibly say it doesn't cost more when many/most of us would have to buy another CAR to do it? (and a trailer and tow vehicle too). Or spend lot$ to get within class rules. Then there's the increased risk of damage. And higher insurance costs. Plus costs to actually be competitive. The list goes on. There are numerous valid reasons for people to stick to DEs only.
Racing your daily or weekend driver isn't an option so how can you possibly say it doesn't cost more when many/most of us would have to buy another CAR to do it? (and a trailer and tow vehicle too). Or spend lot$ to get within class rules. Then there's the increased risk of damage. And higher insurance costs. Plus costs to actually be competitive. The list goes on. There are numerous valid reasons for people to stick to DEs only.
12-05-2008, 02:37 PM
#60
Instructor
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What an impressive thread. All good points. I second what Dell has said about DE guys offsetting costs. We would be in the red if it wasn't for them. Each type of driving has its die hard following. At the TWS 2009 club race I'll be introducing Time Trials in addition to the DE/Race. If all goes well in 2010 I hope to add an AX event to it. That will bring all "racers" into one event. And don't forget that the wine tastings are where the new Porsche owner first hears about that strange thing called a track.