Are turbo drivers just that more talented......
09-07-2007 | 04:35 PM
#106
Formula One Spin Doctor
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From: RPM Central
The 935's where hitting close to 1000 BHP in the early years of camel GT, by the time of factory prototypes, there where no cars @ the 700 bhp mark not even in GTO ,,,, i would guess in Qualy boost trim everyone where exceeding 1000 bhp quite possibly closer to 1200 BHP.......
PS: it's not off topic if it's racing
09-07-2007 | 04:56 PM
#107
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Thanks A.Wayne. Dear Lord that's a ton of power. Wouldn't you get a ton of heat soak at running at the boost neccessary to get that kind of power, especially from the air cooled 962s? In purusing various forums on Rennlist I'm hearing guys talk about how anything over 1 bar is pretty much wasted energy for extended periods of time, not just a couple of laps. I don't know if that holds true for cars as radical as those.
09-07-2007 | 05:01 PM
#108
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From: Asheville, NC
Ah that brings tears to my eyes. I love seeing drivers not give into the peer pressure of going to R compounds too quick. I was at Lime Rock yesterday and with my 180HP and streets, I was still going through turns faster than most, all be it sliding.
You'll like this Paulo, there was a 997 GT3 RS in my group who would fly past on the front straight and I would catch him and get on his *** through 1-2-3-4, then he was off again on the short straight and I couldn't catch him again. Ah to have 400+ HP....
As stated earlier fast in the corners is a sign of a faster driver, but I will qualify that and say that a driver on R compounds can be as fast or faster in the corners without evern taking good lines. I saw many do this yesterday who missed apexes by 2 feet or more.... Stick with streets for a while...you will thank me later.
You'll like this Paulo, there was a 997 GT3 RS in my group who would fly past on the front straight and I would catch him and get on his *** through 1-2-3-4, then he was off again on the short straight and I couldn't catch him again. Ah to have 400+ HP....
As stated earlier fast in the corners is a sign of a faster driver, but I will qualify that and say that a driver on R compounds can be as fast or faster in the corners without evern taking good lines. I saw many do this yesterday who missed apexes by 2 feet or more.... Stick with streets for a while...you will thank me later.
09-07-2007 | 06:12 PM
#109
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Thanks A.Wayne. Dear Lord that's a ton of power. Wouldn't you get a ton of heat soak at running at the boost neccessary to get that kind of power, especially from the air cooled 962s? In purusing various forums on Rennlist I'm hearing guys talk about how anything over 1 bar is pretty much wasted energy for extended periods of time, not just a couple of laps. I don't know if that holds true for cars as radical as those.
935's where top fan engines, 962 where watercooled heads i can tell you a 935 type motor will make 780 bhp @ 1 bar 880 @ 1.4 bar . in the 80's running @ 770 bhp we where getting pulled by the 956's on the straights , so i would assume they where making more ... and they had aircooled engines , the later water cooled 962's made more ... I have known as much as 1.6 , but for short runs , qualy laps, early race laps , etc.. 1.2-1.3 for long races .......
Yes Heat soaking is a problem , big coolers are a must ( oil , intercooler etc)
most track 930 have small cores , they will tend to heat soak on a hot day over a long duration and a oil cooler with inefficient airflow so the temps take a beating , pay attn to this and you will not have heat issues ........
09-07-2007 | 06:18 PM
#110
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From: SC
) with streets for the rest of the season.....but I got to tell you, it makes it harder to chase down someone with R-compounds and higher HP. I mean, I have to be smoother, more exact on the line, carry momentum well, drive almost flawlessly to be able to be on their bumper in the corners and sometimes get a pass signal........
It is a great feeling though......
09-08-2007 | 12:05 AM
#111
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From: SF Bay Area
Hi F1,
I was afraid my turbo car rant killed the discussion. Really the thread is about turbo drivers
Turbos are generally some of toughest cars to drive, contolling power and higher rear weight percentages.
The bigest thing a newbie has to deal with, with the early stock cars is before they are up to speed falling off boost can really upset the car. Thus early training in slow in fast out so you stay commited to the throttle in the turns. Then of course if a student is over slow full commitment can bring on the dreaded power induced oversteer.
They do cause some bad habits. I went to a formula car school this spring. I was loosing the front end on turn in do to too abrupt turn in and resulting spring bounce loading and unloading the outside front tire. I was used to planting my turn in wheel with trail brake and making a strong wheel commintment to get the heavy *** of my car to start rotation. The coach also gave me hell for over driving mid and late corner. I was having a ball hanging the *** our with big slip angle coming off the corners. I can't get away with that stuff with my car.
As far as stock class turbos, Russ Castagna was at the top of C-stock for many years with a prepared 2850 pound prepared 930, The newer 993-996 TT AWD's are cool street cars but I would not pick one to race especially stock classes they are just too heavy to be fast in the corners. Norm G's friend Rick has one in GT1 that is really quick, and he is just about unbeatable in in the rain
I was afraid my turbo car rant killed the discussion. Really the thread is about turbo drivers
Turbos are generally some of toughest cars to drive, contolling power and higher rear weight percentages.
The bigest thing a newbie has to deal with, with the early stock cars is before they are up to speed falling off boost can really upset the car. Thus early training in slow in fast out so you stay commited to the throttle in the turns. Then of course if a student is over slow full commitment can bring on the dreaded power induced oversteer.
They do cause some bad habits. I went to a formula car school this spring. I was loosing the front end on turn in do to too abrupt turn in and resulting spring bounce loading and unloading the outside front tire. I was used to planting my turn in wheel with trail brake and making a strong wheel commintment to get the heavy *** of my car to start rotation. The coach also gave me hell for over driving mid and late corner. I was having a ball hanging the *** our with big slip angle coming off the corners. I can't get away with that stuff with my car.
As far as stock class turbos, Russ Castagna was at the top of C-stock for many years with a prepared 2850 pound prepared 930, The newer 993-996 TT AWD's are cool street cars but I would not pick one to race especially stock classes they are just too heavy to be fast in the corners. Norm G's friend Rick has one in GT1 that is really quick, and he is just about unbeatable in in the rain
Thanks for the writeup .Yeah, like i said im basing my decision on a 996tt stock pretty much. I'm not afraid of the power or getting it sideways, thats not the issue, the issue as you said its the weight and the awd that kills it at the track imo. I slide this car for fun in every turn i can, I drive it as if was an F1 car...Maybe thats why i'm on my 3rd set of tires in just 8,000 miles
09-08-2007 | 07:42 AM
#112
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From: Swansea MA
What accomodation do you think you should make, if any,[
Anyway RSR,
The answer is as a racer
1, alway look for more corner speed., lately I, changed out shocks-front plus front strut geometry and changed rear tire profile, and smoothed out the bottom of the car. alllooking for beter grip mechanical and or air,
The last choice when a NA car is truly faster (pretty rare) I try to let him by going into the longest series of corners, and then hoperfully I won't have to give up much on the strait.
BESIDES the pesky bastard will probably use up his tires and I'll get him latter!!
09-08-2007 | 11:29 AM
#113
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From: Asheville, NC
I am sticking (not literally of course ) with streets for the rest of the season.....
but I got to tell you, it makes it harder to chase down someone with R-compounds and higher HP. I mean, I have to be smoother, more exact on the line, carry momentum well, drive almost flawlessly to be able to be on their bumper in the corners and sometimes get a pass signal........
It is a great feeling though......
) with streets for the rest of the season.....but I got to tell you, it makes it harder to chase down someone with R-compounds and higher HP. I mean, I have to be smoother, more exact on the line, carry momentum well, drive almost flawlessly to be able to be on their bumper in the corners and sometimes get a pass signal........
It is a great feeling though......
You will be a better driver for it.BTW, shoot me an e-mail about the autocross you attended.
Noel
09-11-2007 | 04:17 PM
#114
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From: Woodstock, GA
or is it just that the long straights are their best friends?
I am just trying to learn how is it possible that on the turns I am parked on their bumpers, regardless of the track, and then all of a sudden I get distanced on the straights?
What am I doing wrong? Does anyone have an explanation?
I am just trying to learn how is it possible that on the turns I am parked on their bumpers, regardless of the track, and then all of a sudden I get distanced on the straights?
What am I doing wrong? Does anyone have an explanation?
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/6...2d00c5336f.htm
09-11-2007 | 04:59 PM
#115
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From: SC
Well, this turbo driver looks like he can hold his own in the corners. Yeah, the car seems to have lot of power, but I think it's a full-weight GT2 street car and it seems to be hanging with some Cup cars in the corners.
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/6...2d00c5336f.htm
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/6...2d00c5336f.htm
That doesn't make me Alonso or my car a Mclaren.....
Last edited by BostonDMD; 09-11-2007 at 05:50 PM.
09-11-2007 | 06:11 PM
#116
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There is an instructor in Rennsport that started with a 76 3.0 Carrera, then put a turbo on it, then converted it to a high HP 934 replica, and now it's being updated to a twin-turbo 935 bodied weapon. He is VERY fast in his turbo. Since his car was out of commission this year, he sometimes takes out his wife's 993 street car and reminds us that he's fast in anything.
09-11-2007 | 06:21 PM
#117
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09-11-2007 | 08:38 PM
#119
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From: SC
09-11-2007 | 09:09 PM
#120
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From: Ottawa, Canada
There is an instructor in Rennsport that started with a 76 3.0 Carrera, then put a turbo on it, then converted it to a high HP 934 replica, and now it's being updated to a twin-turbo 935 bodied weapon. He is VERY fast in his turbo. Since his car was out of commission this year, he sometimes takes out his wife's 993 street car and reminds us that he's fast in anything.
His wife's 993 on STREET tires.