Gary R.

I meant I was running in White with Metro this weekend, Black is full... that was your chance. Of course I will only be running my little SC there so it would be all I could do to keep you from rolling right OVER me!

BostonDMD

SHUT UP, would you?.........

RedlineMan

Yah... OK;

Come for a ride, son.

F1CrazyDriver

Hmm well I came from a 'low hp' car and i was very fast around the tracks during DE events, specialy mountain roads where i learned to drive.

Now that i have a turbo theirs a few things different then an N/A hence i think a turbo is not the best for the track but it can hold its own. My opinion of the things i dont like about the turbo is:

-Low reving- no good at the track imo
-gears- due to power it can overcome gear issues for street driving but no essential for track
-Burst of power- not good when you get on it on a tite apex, at least not on stock suspension.
-turbo lag..

Anyways, any of you guys here in north cal ? i'll do my best to give you a run for your N/A engine

Rich Sandor

I think if you can master the art of dealing w/ turbo lag, then driving an n/a car will be a piece of cake in comparision.

Bill935K3

ENOUGH OF THIS CRAP
A turbo will make a good race car great (IE why the GT3 NA guys like Chris Mustane are trying to make "turbo only" classes. Two really good drivers Chris and Roy Chong, two really good cars, why not a close race THE TURBO BABY!!
A turbo will make a great race care unbeatable cases in point 917's 935's & 962's
If I can make a choice between a high rev narrow band (high maintainance) NA motor and a low rev wide band (high Maintainance) turbo I'll take the turbo every time.
turbos have flat torgue band (what I mean is) I'm over 550 ft lbs from 4600 RPM to 7200 RPM, which translates into race drivablity, As long as I am somewhere close I can "fill the hole". Also over a long race I can deal with traffic and recover SPEED/LAP TIME much easier than a NA car that runs the same lap times with open track.
Here is a video of an early practice (having some fun with 997 cups) at Sebring, as long as I can keep my corners speeds somewhere close to the latest/greatest Porsche has to offer, I'm in good shape. Of course Norm and I have some (i mean A LOT) of work to do with guys like Leah K driving unrestricted full race, and air managed 997GT3RS. I don't see a 1.51 with my car at the Glen any time soon, at least not with me driving it! http://members.rennlist.com/bill935k...ing%201%20.wmv

F1CrazyDriver

We are talking stock for stock no ?
IF you are talking against a modify turbo...with suspension etc.. its a totally diff ball game ..my opinon is based on a stock 996 tt ... throw some slicks/swaybars/suspension i' know for a fact you can cut down 10 seconds on many tracks easily

Bill935K3

Hi F1,
I was afraid my turbo car rant killed the discussion. Really the thread is about turbo drivers
Turbos are generally some of toughest cars to drive, contolling power and higher rear weight percentages.
The bigest thing a newbie has to deal with, with the early stock cars is before they are up to speed falling off boost can really upset the car. Thus early training in slow in fast out so you stay commited to the throttle in the turns. Then of course if a student is over slow full commitment can bring on the dreaded power induced oversteer.
They do cause some bad habits. I went to a formula car school this spring. I was loosing the front end on turn in do to too abrupt turn in and resulting spring bounce loading and unloading the outside front tire. I was used to planting my turn in wheel with trail brake and making a strong wheel commintment to get the heavy *** of my car to start rotation. The coach also gave me hell for over driving mid and late corner. I was having a ball hanging the *** our with big slip angle coming off the corners. I can't get away with that stuff with my car.
As far as stock class turbos, Russ Castagna was at the top of C-stock for many years with a prepared 2850 pound prepared 930, The newer 993-996 TT AWD's are cool street cars but I would not pick one to race especially stock classes they are just too heavy to be fast in the corners. Norm G's friend Rick has one in GT1 that is really quick, and he is just about unbeatable in in the rain

Willard Bridgham 3

What, should us turbo drivers apologize for having a better power band than N/A cars?

I hear drivers of low-power n/a cars talk about having to maintain momentum. As momentum is a product of mass X velocity, both turbo and N/A cars have to maintain momentum to get around the track quickly.

I think that what they are really talking about is lack of power and my advice is to get a turbo.....

Larry Herman

Bah! A turbo is a band-aid for lack of mid-corner speed!

RolexNJ

Very nicely put and I agree. And here is a video of the factory Nissan IMSA GTP car (sorry, I know it's not a P-Car), back in the 90s that actually blew the doors off of the 962s. I should know, I was there in the series! There weren't to many N/As in the series versus the unGodly fast cars like the Nissans, Porsches, Toyotas. Why? In short the turbo cars could generate a lot of BHP with the turn of the ****, just as they do today too. The Nissan in the video made close to 1000 BHP, that's not to shabby if you ask me. I'll take a turbo car that's 'optimally' tuned (cams, turbo/s, head CFM, etc) over an N/A anytime. But then again, I am a pure boost guy at heart. Enjoy the video, and you guys can get back to the debating!

Video --> Nissan IMSA GTP Turbo Car

PT

Getting back to the turbo DRIVER discussion...

Why do most NA folks think that turbo drivers do NOT know how to drive (a NA) car?

When I was driving a Boxster, if I can stay with 911 & 944T, its all because of the car is easy to drive (of course very few remember how mid engine can "snap" easily). Now that I can hang with NA cars in corners, its because turbo has way more hp...

If you do start learning how to drive with a turbo AND lots of nannies help, yes, you can become a very sloppy driver and still be quick. But then the same can be said about the latest GT3 and 997S...

RSRRacer

What accomodation do you think you should make, if any, when you are not able to keep your cornering speeds up?

The answer may be "no accomodation", which is fine, it's just good to know ahead of time so that a change of tactics may be safely employed.

M758

It is very simple. Turbo cars of all era's have good hp. More that the NA cars of the same era. In many cases the Turbo cars are really fast on the track due to the extra hp. The NA guys stay with the turbo cars in the corners only to eat dust on the straights. Hence the start of the "Turbo Driver". Along the way there are a lot of Turbo guys that just are not all that good. The extra punch of turbo makes this more clear as the differene of relativte speed in the corners vs the straighs is more apparent. This can happen on high hp NA cars as well, but effect is masked some by the fact that as the cars evolved their cornering speeds increased as well.

So it comes from a what alot of drivers see on the track. All turbo drivers are not bad and there are plenty that are very very good.

Still I have seen this entire thread as sort of comical rather than a serious complaint.

Brian P

I find that issues like this only come up when you catch someone in traffic and there may be some doubt about who the faster driver is. If you catch someone when there is no traffic, it's pretty clear who is faster.

After catching someone in traffic, and when we both get through the traffic, I've always felt that the guy in front gets to have one (maybe two) straights to prove that he is faster (either by HP or skill). If he turns out to be slower, then it's time to give it up and give the point-by. If/when the guy doesn't give the point-by, I think that's when frustrations start to rise.

Of course, in higher run groups, people are a bit more aware of who is faster and may send cars ahead of them even if they are both in the back of a train.