Are turbo drivers just that more talented......
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Hi F1,
I was afraid my turbo car rant killed the discussion. Really the thread is about turbo drivers
Turbos are generally some of toughest cars to drive, contolling power and higher rear weight percentages.
The bigest thing a newbie has to deal with, with the early stock cars is before they are up to speed falling off boost can really upset the car. Thus early training in slow in fast out so you stay commited to the throttle in the turns. Then of course if a student is over slow full commitment can bring on the dreaded power induced oversteer.
They do cause some bad habits. I went to a formula car school this spring. I was loosing the front end on turn in do to too abrupt turn in and resulting spring bounce loading and unloading the outside front tire. I was used to planting my turn in wheel with trail brake and making a strong wheel commintment to get the heavy *** of my car to start rotation. The coach also gave me hell for over driving mid and late corner. I was having a ball hanging the *** our with big slip angle coming off the corners. I can't get away with that stuff with my car.
As far as stock class turbos, Russ Castagna was at the top of C-stock for many years with a prepared 2850 pound prepared 930, The newer 993-996 TT AWD's are cool street cars but I would not pick one to race especially stock classes they are just too heavy to be fast in the corners. Norm G's friend Rick has one in GT1 that is really quick, and he is just about unbeatable in in the rain
I was afraid my turbo car rant killed the discussion. Really the thread is about turbo drivers
Turbos are generally some of toughest cars to drive, contolling power and higher rear weight percentages.
The bigest thing a newbie has to deal with, with the early stock cars is before they are up to speed falling off boost can really upset the car. Thus early training in slow in fast out so you stay commited to the throttle in the turns. Then of course if a student is over slow full commitment can bring on the dreaded power induced oversteer.
They do cause some bad habits. I went to a formula car school this spring. I was loosing the front end on turn in do to too abrupt turn in and resulting spring bounce loading and unloading the outside front tire. I was used to planting my turn in wheel with trail brake and making a strong wheel commintment to get the heavy *** of my car to start rotation. The coach also gave me hell for over driving mid and late corner. I was having a ball hanging the *** our with big slip angle coming off the corners. I can't get away with that stuff with my car.
As far as stock class turbos, Russ Castagna was at the top of C-stock for many years with a prepared 2850 pound prepared 930, The newer 993-996 TT AWD's are cool street cars but I would not pick one to race especially stock classes they are just too heavy to be fast in the corners. Norm G's friend Rick has one in GT1 that is really quick, and he is just about unbeatable in in the rain
Not to worry bill, the " little Guys" will always cry foul
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I will let them in on a little secret, Turbo guys like to slow NA guys in the turns , it is an deliberate act, you see, While we search for the grey poupon exiting the turns , then gently Squeeze the pedal to the floor leaving them in a supersonic turbo burst down the straight aways , we then slow at the next turn to apply said grey poupon .....Dig
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Are you going to be in Monza this week-end? I lived there for a year and loved it.........
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ENOUGH OF THIS CRAP ![Smilie](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
A turbo will make a good race car great (IE why the GT3 NA guys like Chris Mustane are trying to make "turbo only" classes. Two really good drivers Chris and Roy Chong, two really good cars, why not a close race THE TURBO BABY!!
A turbo will make a great race care unbeatable cases in point 917's 935's & 962's
If I can make a choice between a high rev narrow band (high maintainance) NA motor and a low rev wide band (high Maintainance) turbo I'll take the turbo every time.
turbos have flat torgue band (what I mean is) I'm over 550 ft lbs from 4600 RPM to 7200 RPM, which translates into race drivablity, As long as I am somewhere close I can "fill the hole". Also over a long race I can deal with traffic and recover SPEED/LAP TIME much easier than a NA car that runs the same lap times with open track.
Here is a video of an early practice (having some fun with 997 cups) at Sebring, as long as I can keep my corners speeds somewhere close to the latest/greatest Porsche has to offer, I'm in good shape. Of course Norm and I have some (i mean A LOT) of work to do with guys like Leah K driving unrestricted full race, and air managed 997GT3RS. I don't see a 1.51 with my car at the Glen any time soon, at least not with me driving it! http://members.rennlist.com/bill935k...ing%201%20.wmv
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A turbo will make a good race car great (IE why the GT3 NA guys like Chris Mustane are trying to make "turbo only" classes. Two really good drivers Chris and Roy Chong, two really good cars, why not a close race THE TURBO BABY!!
A turbo will make a great race care unbeatable cases in point 917's 935's & 962's
If I can make a choice between a high rev narrow band (high maintainance) NA motor and a low rev wide band (high Maintainance) turbo I'll take the turbo every time.
turbos have flat torgue band (what I mean is) I'm over 550 ft lbs from 4600 RPM to 7200 RPM, which translates into race drivablity, As long as I am somewhere close I can "fill the hole". Also over a long race I can deal with traffic and recover SPEED/LAP TIME much easier than a NA car that runs the same lap times with open track.
Here is a video of an early practice (having some fun with 997 cups) at Sebring, as long as I can keep my corners speeds somewhere close to the latest/greatest Porsche has to offer, I'm in good shape. Of course Norm and I have some (i mean A LOT) of work to do with guys like Leah K driving unrestricted full race, and air managed 997GT3RS. I don't see a 1.51 with my car at the Glen any time soon, at least not with me driving it! http://members.rennlist.com/bill935k...ing%201%20.wmv
Very nicely put and I agree. And here is a video of the factory Nissan IMSA GTP car (sorry, I know it's not a P-Car), back in the 90s that actually blew the doors off of the 962s. I should know, I was there in the series! There weren't to many N/As in the series versus the unGodly fast cars like the Nissans, Porsches, Toyotas. Why? In short the turbo cars could generate a lot of BHP with the turn of the ****, just as they do today too. The Nissan in the video made close to 1000 BHP, that's not to shabby if you ask me. I'll take a turbo car that's 'optimally' tuned (cams, turbo/s, head CFM, etc) over an N/A anytime. But then again, I am a pure boost guy at heart. Enjoy the video, and you guys can get back to the debating!
Video --> Nissan IMSA GTP Turbo Car
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Video --> Nissan IMSA GTP Turbo Car
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The Nissan was a nice piece of engineering but IMO it was not as impressive compared to what Toyota and Gurney were turning out. IIRC, 1.2 liter 4 cylinder putting out nearly the same amount of HP.
Back to turbo vs. non-turbo. Which one would I take. Well I think people are making the assumption that the turbo car would have more power. If the peak HP were the same I'd probably go for the non-turbo. But that's just me.
As for who are the better drivers. Well other than GR...
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BAH! I disagree with the statement that a turbo makes a good race car great. More power can make a good racecar better, how it gets there can be a number of ways. Turbos can easily churn out lots of power, that's why someone could think that a turbo makes a good car, great. All it did was add power in a way unique to turbos. The reason the 917, 962 etc were turbocharged was probably more realted to the wording of the rules than anything else.
The Nissan was a nice piece of engineering but IMO it was not as impressive compared to what Toyota and Gurney were turning out. IIRC, 1.2 liter 4 cylinder putting out nearly the same amount of HP.
Back to turbo vs. non-turbo. Which one would I take. Well I think people are making the assumption that the turbo car would have more power. If the peak HP were the same I'd probably go for the non-turbo. But that's just me.
As for who are the better drivers. Well other than GR...
The Nissan was a nice piece of engineering but IMO it was not as impressive compared to what Toyota and Gurney were turning out. IIRC, 1.2 liter 4 cylinder putting out nearly the same amount of HP.
Back to turbo vs. non-turbo. Which one would I take. Well I think people are making the assumption that the turbo car would have more power. If the peak HP were the same I'd probably go for the non-turbo. But that's just me.
As for who are the better drivers. Well other than GR...
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It made over 1200 BHP, with the special Brew and 60 PSI ..............The Nissan's where over 1000 also , most of the cars of that era where at the 1000 bhp magic number, try and remember hearing their wastegates, in Qualy it was all whistle and ride mate all whistle
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As for hearing the cars, my favorite race I've attended was a Camel GTP race.
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Hi guys. I typically lurk but seeing as this Camel GTP conversation has come up, I'd like to know how much power those cars were making at race boost. Is that the basis of the 700 HP number claim? Thanks and sorry to take the conversation further off topic.