Originally Posted by M758

Still I have seen this entire thread as sort of comical rather than a serious complaint.

Originally Posted by Bill935K3

Hi F1,
I was afraid my turbo car rant killed the discussion. Really the thread is about turbo drivers
Turbos are generally some of toughest cars to drive, contolling power and higher rear weight percentages.
The bigest thing a newbie has to deal with, with the early stock cars is before they are up to speed falling off boost can really upset the car. Thus early training in slow in fast out so you stay commited to the throttle in the turns. Then of course if a student is over slow full commitment can bring on the dreaded power induced oversteer.
They do cause some bad habits. I went to a formula car school this spring. I was loosing the front end on turn in do to too abrupt turn in and resulting spring bounce loading and unloading the outside front tire. I was used to planting my turn in wheel with trail brake and making a strong wheel commintment to get the heavy *** of my car to start rotation. The coach also gave me hell for over driving mid and late corner. I was having a ball hanging the *** our with big slip angle coming off the corners. I can't get away with that stuff with my car.
As far as stock class turbos, Russ Castagna was at the top of C-stock for many years with a prepared 2850 pound prepared 930, The newer 993-996 TT AWD's are cool street cars but I would not pick one to race especially stock classes they are just too heavy to be fast in the corners. Norm G's friend Rick has one in GT1 that is really quick, and he is just about unbeatable in in the rain

Originally Posted by A.Wayne

While we search for the grey poupon exiting the turns , then gently Squeeze the pedal to the floor leaving them in a supersonic turbo burst down the straight aways , we then slow at the next turn to apply said grey poupon .....Dig

Originally Posted by BostonDMD

Does that mean turbo drivers they can't cut the mustard?........

Originally Posted by A.Wayne

Mustard ! PLeeeeasss

Unlike conventional yellow mustards, Grey Poupon contains a small amount of white wine. leave the Mustard for the little NA guys ,

Originally Posted by BostonDMD

Yes....., Grey Poupon for the wealthy turbo drivers......

Are you going to be in Monza this week-end? I lived there for a year and loved it.........

Originally Posted by A.Wayne

Agree Italy is the best Stop for me in europe ........

Originally Posted by Bill935K3

ENOUGH OF THIS CRAP
A turbo will make a good race car great (IE why the GT3 NA guys like Chris Mustane are trying to make "turbo only" classes. Two really good drivers Chris and Roy Chong, two really good cars, why not a close race THE TURBO BABY!!
A turbo will make a great race care unbeatable cases in point 917's 935's & 962's
If I can make a choice between a high rev narrow band (high maintainance) NA motor and a low rev wide band (high Maintainance) turbo I'll take the turbo every time.
turbos have flat torgue band (what I mean is) I'm over 550 ft lbs from 4600 RPM to 7200 RPM, which translates into race drivablity, As long as I am somewhere close I can "fill the hole". Also over a long race I can deal with traffic and recover SPEED/LAP TIME much easier than a NA car that runs the same lap times with open track.
Here is a video of an early practice (having some fun with 997 cups) at Sebring, as long as I can keep my corners speeds somewhere close to the latest/greatest Porsche has to offer, I'm in good shape. Of course Norm and I have some (i mean A LOT) of work to do with guys like Leah K driving unrestricted full race, and air managed 997GT3RS. I don't see a 1.51 with my car at the Glen any time soon, at least not with me driving it! http://members.rennlist.com/bill935k...ing%201%20.wmv

Originally Posted by RolexNJ

Very nicely put and I agree. And here is a video of the factory Nissan IMSA GTP car (sorry, I know it's not a P-Car), back in the 90s that actually blew the doors off of the 962s. I should know, I was there in the series! There weren't to many N/As in the series versus the unGodly fast cars like the Nissans, Porsches, Toyotas. Why? In short the turbo cars could generate a lot of BHP with the turn of the ****, just as they do today too. The Nissan in the video made close to 1000 BHP, that's not to shabby if you ask me. I'll take a turbo car that's 'optimally' tuned (cams, turbo/s, head CFM, etc) over an N/A anytime. But then again, I am a pure boost guy at heart. Enjoy the video, and you guys can get back to the debating!

Video --> Nissan IMSA GTP Turbo Car

Originally Posted by cooleyjb

BAH! I disagree with the statement that a turbo makes a good race car great. More power can make a good racecar better, how it gets there can be a number of ways. Turbos can easily churn out lots of power, that's why someone could think that a turbo makes a good car, great. All it did was add power in a way unique to turbos. The reason the 917, 962 etc were turbocharged was probably more realted to the wording of the rules than anything else.




The Nissan was a nice piece of engineering but IMO it was not as impressive compared to what Toyota and Gurney were turning out. IIRC, 1.2 liter 4 cylinder putting out nearly the same amount of HP.



Back to turbo vs. non-turbo. Which one would I take. Well I think people are making the assumption that the turbo car would have more power. If the peak HP were the same I'd probably go for the non-turbo. But that's just me.

As for who are the better drivers. Well other than GR...

Originally Posted by A.Wayne

The Toyota was 2.1 L mate even with the same peak HP a modern turbo car will make more peak T/Q and the hP curve will be wider .....

Originally Posted by cooleyjb

Ooops, 2.1-1.2 dyslexic am I.

Also it was rated at @700hp not roughly the same as the Nissan's 1000hp.

Originally Posted by cooleyjb

Ooops, 2.1-1.2 dyslexic am I.

Also it was rated at @700hp not roughly the same as the Nissan's 1000hp.

Originally Posted by A.Wayne

It made over 1200 BHP, with the special Brew and 60 PSI ..............The Nissan's where over 1000 also , most of the cars of that era where at the 1000 bhp magic number, try and remember hearing their wastegates, in Qualy it was all whistle and ride mate all whistle

Originally Posted by enduro911

Thanks and sorry to take the conversation further off topic.