LAPS INC.

Wow, I thought I was slow when it was happening in real life. But I look pathetically slow on video I need more practice

flatsics

Or nitrous

Larry Herman

Doubtful. Every turbo driver that I know of who learned on one has remarked how much they have to get used to driving a N/A car. They cannot believe how slowly they have been going into the corners, and how early they must get back on the power to keep their speed up.

Actually, if he's any good, he'll get used to that power very quickly, because he's used to coming off the corner as hard as possible. That being said, and great driver in either car is just that.....a great driver. It's just with a N/A car, you usually do not have big power to compensate for lack of mid-corner speed, so maintaining momentum is more critical.

What the crux of the matter is though that whether turbo or not, it really is harder to drive a high hp car at it's limit.

FredC

You need to practice the fast line as demonstrated by the white car... the line coming in to turn 3 inside and coming out still inside... the line minimizing radius... didn't you know that speed is f{1/radius) [sarcasm here]? Or as Doug suggests, Nitrous Oxide could help.

Jim Child

Wow!

DM993tt

Saying that Turbo drivers are slow in the turns and fast on the straights may be a natural phenomenon in the lower run groups at DE events, but it is also a sweeping generalization to apply to all drivers of turbo cars, especially the 944's. If anyone's ever driven a high hp 930 or TT, the mash the gas onto the straights is just a factor lack experience, and enjoying the torque these car produce. We've all seen it. I stongly believe this is less of a problem when you get to the higher run groups or club racing, where the drivers know what they are doing and are fast in the turns too. My guess is that the original poster and most of those who share the mindset are in lower run groups. Fortunately most instructors are also aware of this phenomenon too and do not sign them off too quickly.

If you have a good driver, turn in speed should be equal whether he's driving a forced induction or NA so long as the car is set up the same and weight remains constant.

Larry Herman

I have found from experience that is not true. The power characteristics of turbo motors means that they do not set as quickly as N/A cars, because that instant torque is not there. This means that they do not transfer load to the back tires as quickly, and therefore their speed at the transition point must be a little slower. Add to that the fact that most turbo cars have more hp than their N/A counterparts, and that means that they need to be driven a little deeper, and turned a little harder in order to optimize that extra power exiting the corner. This also lowers entry and cornering speed as compared to a similar N/A car.

BrianKeithSmith

I've always looked at it in this manner... Let's say my car and me weighs 2735, and lets say there's another normally aspirated 911 there, that's a widebody, with the same weight, same tire combo, similar suspension etc. Let's go further to assume that the cars are identical in every way, except for the powerplant, drivers weigh the same, etc.

If 2 drivers are comparable, then their speeds at a given corner, lets use the apex of the corner, should be very close if they are both driving their cars equally. In this case, we've got 2 pretty much identical cars with the only exception being the power each one is putting down, and in either case, those 2 cars will have pretty much the same physical limitations when it comes to navigating a designated corner - lets say a 90 degree left hander. Sure a particular style on entry or exit may vary either driver's speed, but I'm guessing that the speed at the apex (which I'd think is about all that you can compare between a turbo car and an N/A car that otherwise have identical features) should be within say 1mph of one another - approx...

What I'm saying is regardless of your power, you are still limited by the same factors as the lower powered car when it comes to weight distribution, tire width, mechanical grip, etc which will ultimately determine the maximum speed that either of those cars can pretty much handle through that corner on the same day with the same conditions.

And, one more thing. We should probably actually look at minimum speed I'd guess. A turbo driver will take the corner a slightly different (I'd think) than the N/A guy, so in essence you almost have to pick a corner, look at the data, and compare the minimum speeds. If there is a minimum speed differential that is more than 1mph then one of those cars I'd think one of them is leaving something on the table...

Am I wrong in making that assumption, using this particular case scenario?

LVDell

Of course not....you're Brian Keith Smith!

BrianKeithSmith

good lord... here we go.... Give LVDell a Rennlist membership and just watch the whole world go downhill....

LVDell

Hey, it's Sandman to you bubba!

By the way, it's been downhill since October of '03

Larry Herman

Dell, you big suck up.

LVDell

hehehe, what do I need to suck up for? Brian to take pity on me at the track?

He still has a good 3 seconds on me

BrianKeithSmith

so can anyone answer my question???

Larry Herman

I thought that I did. If you take a real world example like in PCA F class, a stock 944 turbo competes against a 944S2. They are both the same weight, and around the same hp, with a slight edge to the 944T. I think that most would agree that the 944S2 is faster into and through the corners, due to the response of the motor and ability to better set the back of the car.

I raced against both in my Carrera, and the 944S2s always were tougher than the 944 turbos.