TR6

So here's a question... Assuming your street policy will not cover DE's, and you purchase a DE specific track policy (or not), if you become physically injured on the track as a result of a crash and require medical attention, who covers the medical costs:
1) you alone out of your pocket
2) your general health/medical insurance policy (like many of us have through our employers)
3) your DE/track specific policy (I think they will only cover damages to the car based on what I have read).
4) PCA insurance policy

I'm concerned that #2 may not cover injuries due to the nature of the activity, but I hope it does. We've all probably seen situations where our medical insurance providers try to find reasons to reject claims. If the answer is #1 and you will pay out of your pocket, then we've all been worrying about the wrong end of the stick here (covering damage to our cars). If you were injured in a track crash and required hospitalization, those costs could quickly dwarf the costs of replacing your track car. Granted, probably in most crashes at DE's, the drivers walk away. But there are some cases where they end up going to the hospital with injuries, sometimes serious. All it takes is one serious injury that requires hospitalization/surgery with no medical coverage to possibly bankrupt someone. Think about the cost of a serious head injury or a broken pelvis. I would worry about this financial aspect more than I would the cost of my car.

And for that matter, if the worst case happens (God forbid), will your term life insurance pay if you are killed on the track? Most of us have families that depend on us financially which is why we buy life insurance. Has anyone researched this? I'm almost afraid to ask. Imagine if you were killed at the track and your wife and kids got no life insurance payout at all due to some exclusion you weren't even aware of. Not trying to be morbid or alarmist but it's an important issue that I've wondered about.

DaveM993

#2
and whatever it doesn't cover
#1

I don't think most employer based health coverage has exclusions for stuff you do.
As for life insurance, it GENERALLY goes like this. If you are involved in the activity before you got the policy and declared it and they cover you (and don't exclude it in the policy) you are OK. If you already had the policy when you START the activity you are OK. The key is you cannot have been involved before you apply for coverage. If you lie on your application and die within the first two years as a result of the undeclared activity, they will likely deny payout. However, in alot of policies, after two years you are covered for ANYTHING even if you lied on the application. YMMV

deep_uv

My most recent insurance policy from Progressive has specific language that specifically excludes among other things, "any driving activity conducted on a permanent or temporary racetrack or race-course." That pretty much takes care of it. To take it to an extreme, even parade laps aren't covered. Surely visitors who are driving parade laps at a DE or club race in their street cars or whatever don't realize they're not covered.

One other point, insurance is regulated at the state level, so the policy wording could be different from state to state with my Progressive example.

gobble

These changes could have a devastating effect on DE participation. Your average guy isn't going to take his Porsche out without insurance and won't pay the hefty premium for track day insurance.

TR6

While I'm very disappointed in the changes to the street policies to exclude DE's, I seriously doubt that it will have a devastating effect on DE participation. Most folks will still DE if they want to DE. They'll either pony up for a track policy or just do what most people do... convince themselves that the odds are very slim that something will happen to their car on the track.

todinlaw

Keep in mind insurance coverage is state specific State farm writes coverage that will apply to DE' s in Ohio for example but others like Cincinnati insurance excludes. If you find that your policy excludes coverage, then I would first shop around with other Auto carriers in your state, chances are they all don't exclude coverage. so you ma just have to shop a bit harder.

Darren

I don't think so. All of the carriers have exclusions now from my last investigation. If you find one that doesn't let everyone know, but I don't think you will. We're lucky we can even have DE. A few too many lawsuits and it will all be over.

Maybe it doesn't even make sense (for most of us) to DE an $85k Porsche.

The days of driving to the track for club racing and driving home are now over (have to have a cage). Most PCA DE events require racing seats, roll bars (or harness bars) when using harnesses at the track, etc...Some racing requires Hans now -- NASA does starting June 1. Mandated safety equipment will keep increasing, and entry costs will keep going up.

Things are changing...hopefully at least racing will always be allowed.

For the time being, the DE attendance concerns are unfounded -- I see events filling up faster and faster every year.

Eventually though, newbies might have to rent race cars, and with more and more safety requirements, at some point that will make financial sense.

Also, don't kid yourself. There is risk anytime you are on the track, DE or racing. Personally, if I wreck my car so bad that I would be looking for insurance money -- I'll be more happy that I'm alive.

Geoffrey

PCA now requires an SFI 38.1 certified Head and Neck device as of June 2 this year.

Phokaioglaukos

Darren, I think you are absolutely right, for Pennsylvania and most of the rest of the US. Some in California are finding street insurance that does not exclude DE, and I suspect there are other street policies elsewhere that stll cover DE. But for us, it's WSIB or nothing.

Next year I might have to get a race car that I could DE too....

RXDOC

Darren, Phoka:

I couldn't agree with you guys any more! The days of driving to work on Mon-Fri AND then driving to the track and enjoying your street car are OVER. I tracked a 500HP 996TT for over 3 years. I was proud that my TT was a (semi) daily driver and could hold it's own with the best track prep'ed cars. But it was a huge compromise in safety (no cage, race seats, fire suppression). I had a rolbar, suspension, 5 point (rigged harness), on street tires and I was hitting 145MPH+ on the straights. AND a huge compromise in liability. I was assuming I was covered by SF, and I just couldn't walk away from a $90K hit financially. Not even considering liabilities for property and bodily damage to others.

I think that all the rational thinking people on this forum are on the same page on this issue. No Insurance Underwriter actually COVERS DE's. They just haven't got around to excluding it, yet. Please no more comments, "my agent at SF, says I am covered" well no agents has ever paid out a claim out of his pocket. It's the insurance company that pays out claims.

I really enjoyed tracking, but had to give it up, sell my car, and move on. I have much bigger obligations, wife, two teenagers and now a newborn baby. I have found a much more challanging hobby to replace tracking, its called paying the HUGE mortgage on the new house and the bills and looking after the baby and keeping an eye on the teenagers!

To everyone else still risking life and limb and bank account on track, more power to you and be safe.

Oh, and to all you sports car driving guys, if you see a white minivan, or a big black Navigator in front of you in traffic, please be kind. It might be an ex-996TT owner.

Geoffrey

Think of it this way, at least you have good airconditioning and can watch DVDs while sitting in Atlanta traffic during your commute.

RXDOC

Hey, I was never like you hardcore racers. Even my "track car" had ice-cold AC, heated seats, 10-speaker stereo, rain-sensing wipers, etc.

rickdm

You just have to keep things in perspective. I was instructing at a BMW event this weekend and chatting with a getleman driving a year old stock Mini (non turbo), with the standard run-flat sport tires. He was doing really well on the track, learning a great deal about the handling of his car, and really having a blast. The reason I was chatting with him was because my student in a 2007 M5 couldn't seem to catch up to him. He drives his car everyday to work. I think guys like him are what DE's were really created for. I'm not sure anyone anticipated events filled with 400hp cars on racing slicks. No wonder insurance companies are putting in exclusions.