State Farm to exclude DE!
#46
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Originally Posted by softright
Interesting that this thread has focused on material loss only. So you decide you can write off your "track" car and carry no insurance since you trailer it to the track. Then someone gets killed or seriously injured in a "write-off" situation. What happens then - does everyone get sued for everything they own? If they won’t pay for a car involved in a track incident, they certainly won’t pay for incident liability.
#48
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Originally Posted by softright
You can sign all the waivers in the world, but that will not prevent a civil case against you that could clean you out...
Last edited by Phokaioglaukos; 10-11-2006 at 03:52 PM.
#49
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Originally Posted by Bull
Every 6 months?
I'm not against DE insurance, just think it should be spelled out in a policy and paid for appropriately.
#50
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Originally Posted by 38D
My mental math was: 3 out of 200 cars damaged in the average 3 days DE weekend, so 1 car per 200 per day. That's a 0.5% chance per day * 365 normal driving days in a year = 182.5% chance of damage, or roughly 1 accident every 6.5 months (I rounded). Ok, so maybe the normal driving days per year is more like 200, but that's still a huge difference between the 4% per year stat you posted.
I'm not against DE insurance, just think it should be spelled out in a policy and paid for appropriately.
I'm not against DE insurance, just think it should be spelled out in a policy and paid for appropriately.
Anyway, I agree that the insurance should be bought and payed for.
#52
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I guess the only solution in the near future will be to buy a cheap car (like a '76 911) do a lot of expensive modifications so that the sum of the parts is greater than the whole.
Then if you wad it up one day you can sell off all the parts for what the DE insurance would have given you anyway!
Brilliant!
Then if you wad it up one day you can sell off all the parts for what the DE insurance would have given you anyway!
Brilliant!
#53
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FWIW I see nothing in the wording which began this thread which would affect coverage of a DE. As someone pointed out, they may close the loophole.
Something to consider is the fact that many incidents result in minor damage which is never claimed. When looking at statistics for on road accidents, averages do not apply to high performance cars which have shown much higher accident rates than the 'average' car.
I wonder if it's possible to do a correlation to see if DE participants have lower accident rates than the general population. We should be better I think.
Best,
Something to consider is the fact that many incidents result in minor damage which is never claimed. When looking at statistics for on road accidents, averages do not apply to high performance cars which have shown much higher accident rates than the 'average' car.
I wonder if it's possible to do a correlation to see if DE participants have lower accident rates than the general population. We should be better I think.
Best,
#54
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Originally Posted by DanS911
I guess the only solution in the near future will be to buy a cheap car (like a '76 911) do a lot of expensive modifications so that the sum of the parts is greater than the whole.
Then if you wad it up one day you can sell off all the parts for what the DE insurance would have given you anyway!
Brilliant!
Then if you wad it up one day you can sell off all the parts for what the DE insurance would have given you anyway!
Brilliant!
i may move down another notch to something even slower. hum spec 911, 944 or spec boxster comes to mind if i were to stay in the porsche fold.
#55
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Originally Posted by Bob Rouleau
FWIW I see nothing in the wording which began this thread which would affect coverage of a DE. As someone pointed out, they may close the loophole.
#56
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Originally Posted by 38D
Come on guys, this was clearly a loophole in many policies. Insurance companies never intended to cover DE accidents, they just had not seen enough of them to warrant the hassle of changing the language. Now with people regularly tracking & crashing $100k cars, it makes sense. I personally don't think the general public should be paying for us to go 150mph on a race track.
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With every day cars going faster & faster, this is no suprise. It blows my mind it took this long. This year at RA a newbie was on the track with a stock street car (sorry, not at the liberty to give specific details). First lap he was clocked going into turn 1 at 160+mph - with no instructor.
And we wonder why the insurance companies are changing the policies?
I track a 1979 928 for a reason. It's a lot of fun, loud, handles great, and if I roll it off the wall, I can buy another one for less than most new car payments.
I've said this before - you should never take a car on a race track at speed if you are making payments on it.
Last edited by hacker-pschorr; 10-11-2006 at 11:56 PM.
#57
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Colin, I read it several times. If the intent was what you think it is I think it should be worded as follows -
There is no Liability Coverage: while a vehicle is off public roads and being prepared for, used in practice for, or operated in any racing, speed, hill-climbing, jumping, or other similar contest; or on a track designed primarily for racing or high-speed driving.
On the other hand my native language is French
There is no Liability Coverage: while a vehicle is off public roads and being prepared for, used in practice for, or operated in any racing, speed, hill-climbing, jumping, or other similar contest; or on a track designed primarily for racing or high-speed driving.
On the other hand my native language is French
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#58
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Originally Posted by Bob Rouleau
Colin, I read it several times. If the intent was what you think it is I think it should be worded as follows -
There is no Liability Coverage: while a vehicle is off public roads and being prepared for, used in practice for, or operated in any racing, speed, hill-climbing, jumping, or other similar contest; or on a track designed primarily for racing or high-speed driving.
On the other hand my native language is French![Big Grin](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
There is no Liability Coverage: while a vehicle is off public roads and being prepared for, used in practice for, or operated in any racing, speed, hill-climbing, jumping, or other similar contest; or on a track designed primarily for racing or high-speed driving.
On the other hand my native language is French
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The SF text is not perfect, but when read against the language that was there before the change it is quite clear. No cover for DE.
#59
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Originally Posted by Bob Rouleau
Colin, I read it several times. If the intent was what you think it is I think it should be worded as follows -
There is no Liability Coverage: while a vehicle is off public roads and being prepared for, used in practice for, or operated in any racing, speed, hill-climbing, jumping, or other similar contest; or on a track designed primarily for racing or high-speed driving.
On the other hand my native language is French![Big Grin](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
There is no Liability Coverage: while a vehicle is off public roads and being prepared for, used in practice for, or operated in any racing, speed, hill-climbing, jumping, or other similar contest; or on a track designed primarily for racing or high-speed driving.
On the other hand my native language is French
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"There is no Liability Coverage...on a track designed primarily for racing or high-speed driving."
Mon Français est très mal
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#60
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i think i saved myself in insurance claims by going to DE's cause the skills ive learned have kept me from wrecking my car on the street. ive even gone so far as to take the fast car (porsche) and keep it on the track and drive the suburban on the street
.
how much more popular is DE getting? i know for a fact that it hasn't risen as quickly as other things lately (ie texas hold 'em poker...and NASCAR) DE has been around for a long time. i'm sure these arguments have gone back and forth for a long time as well. anyone who's been doing this for a while, was there this much controversy in the past?
as far as the language of a policy- it can't just be changed on a whim. policy changes involve the state ins commissoner and other parties. the actual policy stays the same for the most part. in fact, most ins companies policies are the same (within each st). maybe the # of accidents has risen significantly in the past to warrent the change now. but consider the number of DE cars versus # of policies in america. 200 million drivers or so? and probably <200,000 total cars doing DE? believe me, insurance companies arent taking a big hit.
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how much more popular is DE getting? i know for a fact that it hasn't risen as quickly as other things lately (ie texas hold 'em poker...and NASCAR) DE has been around for a long time. i'm sure these arguments have gone back and forth for a long time as well. anyone who's been doing this for a while, was there this much controversy in the past?
as far as the language of a policy- it can't just be changed on a whim. policy changes involve the state ins commissoner and other parties. the actual policy stays the same for the most part. in fact, most ins companies policies are the same (within each st). maybe the # of accidents has risen significantly in the past to warrent the change now. but consider the number of DE cars versus # of policies in america. 200 million drivers or so? and probably <200,000 total cars doing DE? believe me, insurance companies arent taking a big hit.