JayP

The group I'm with (not PCA) has been around going on 10 years. Early on, the organizers had a time getting participants. The next event this month sold out close to a month early with 35+ on standby. And those 35 are noobs with 300hp-AWD monsters.

What's really changed- dammed youtube, google video and tiny friggin' cameras.

M758

944 spec is gaining lots of momentum in Northern California these days.

mitch236

All the clubs I run with have policies to cover these incidents. It's true that everyone at the track can be sued. The waiver is actually quite strong, given that the event is run within the guidlines set forth in that waiver.

If you want to worry about every possible liability, you won't be having any more fun. Might as well be dead...

John H

Check with your State Farm or oother insurance agent.

I have it on very good authority from State Farm that their policies have not changed and there is no plan to change the language in Ohio policies as noted in the first entry to specifically exclude on track/DE type incidents. My source did say that State Farm in each state has its own policies. So from what I can see, State Farm insureds in Ohio are not subject to the specific exclusion.

It would be interesting to argue that since State Farm changed its language in other states to specifically exclude coverage (must mean coverage was included), the fact that(insert your state with the old language here) did not do so means continued coverage. As State Farm is a client, I couldn't make that argument though.

Phokaioglaukos

This is excellent advice. I am in PA and I heard of the change from a MI resident (who thought it was a nationwide change), but the policies are approved on a state-by-state basis so the change may not come to your state at all or it may come at a different time. Read those policy amendment inserts at renewal time! The relevant language is not hard to find or understand.

trumperZ06

More likely... it's just a matter of time before State Farm has disclaimers for policies in... all states.

Sorry for the pun but... as I recall, Allstate started having the disclaimer wording on new polices 3 or 4 yers ago. This year, instead of "renewing" the old policy, a new policy was enclosed with the payment statement.

Yep... the "new policy" had the track exclusion.

mitch236

Can you imagine what the non-tracker thinks if he reads the policy? He's probably thinking, "who in their right mind would drive their nice car on a race track?!"

Phokaioglaukos

A friend in PA just noted:

I just recieved my policy renewal for State Farm in the mail today. The following is their exclusion included with this renewal.

"The exclusion regarding racing and speed contests has been changed to state that there is no coverage while a vehicle is:

a. off public roads and being prepared for, used in practice for , or operated in any racing, speed, hill-climbing, jumping, or similar contest; or

b. on a track designed primarily for racing or high-speed driving"

Effective date of this policy is 11/27/06 so this is consistant with what Chris was told.

Bob Rouleau

Now, that wording is clear.

Steward B.

PCA has a limited amount of insurance available to pay medical and hospitalization for those injured in DE events. More info is available for members on the PCA website (which currently won't let me in.....must not like the pictures of Corvettes I've got on my computer). It's probably not as strong as the average street car insurance coverage, but is something. Seems to me there is also a small death benefit but other than the unfortunate incidents at The Glen and with the CGT in California, how many deaths or even injuries have occurred at DE's?

I agree with 38D's comments (Hi, Colin!) about non DE participants paying for our fun. In terms of DE participants, we're a drop in the bucket for insurance companies numbers wise and insurers are so risk adverse that they don't want to cover those of us who even think about taking our lovely cars on track. Yes, that doesn't make sense since we're learning skills that can save us on the highway but that's the way insurer's think.

I doubt that this is going to have any effect on the cost of DE's, since the cost is largely driven by track rental and secondarily driven by track insurance costs. Whether or not an individual owner's car is covered by his own insurance policy has no effect on track insurance. If, however, there should be a spate of serious incidents coupled with successful (or even costly unsuccessful) claims against track insurance policies, that may have an effect on DE costs but the more direct effect will be track owners perception that we're a hungry bunch who will likely pay anything for our fix.

My personal opinion is that anyone who brings a suit after an incident on track (or at a ski area for that matter) should be shot as that shows a simple lack of personal responsibility for placing themselves in that position in the first place. And that's even my opinion despite the fact that I'm a lawyer.

Someone should start a thread about on track roll over incidents and cars that don't have supplementary roll bars or roll cages. I've seen a jump in those recently and at the last DE I participated in we had two drivers who are very lucky they had cages/bars, as without those, likely they would have been seriously injured. I cringe when I see new participants out there in their street cars rocketing around without any protection, naively thinking it can't happen to them.

cavlino

My Cars, house etc. are insured with State Farm. I can confirm that they exclude DE's. The reason I checked into it a few years ago was that I heard some insurance companies would not renew you if they found out you drove your car on a race track. I proactively worked with my broker to get it in writing that I drive my car on the track and I don't expect to be covered for damage on the track. I do however expect to be covered for any damage that may occur when driving on public roads.

Phokaioglaukos

Different policies in different places. Check your policy now, and at each amendment. I moved all my insurance to State Farm the year before last because they did cover DE in PA--paid a claim on a friend's GT3 that his son put into the wall on the track and still renewed the policy at expiration. The policy language was also quite clear that DE was not covered by the exclusion. Now in PA DE is clearly excluded. It's a bummer.

cavlino

Hey Chris the orginal reason my Wife and I switched to State Farm was because they were the only ones that would cover our Ducati's :-) We sold the Ducs a couple of years ago though since we both enjoy DE's so much and did not have any time left to take the Ducs out.

Crazy Canuck

Carm,

I'm covered with Scottish & York (an Aviva company) through HUB Insurance and they have verified with the underwriter that I'm covered. Santi just switched from State Farm to S&Y last week. Absolutely no timing allowed but advanced driving instruction is ok.

Phokaioglaukos

Carm, surprising how many Porsche drivers also have Ducs. Our bikes don't get much street use any more, either. I really should drop the comp and collision on them, and now that I trailer them to the track.... Insurance is weird. We had Chubb on the house, but they would not write umbrella liability over the bikes.