Fast and Furious Paul Walker killed in CGT
12-02-2013, 11:46 PM
#213
That said, Porsche had (and has) some of the highest quality automotive engineers in the world so they will have optimized the vehicle as far as they could within the project parameters.
I am glad these cars still get made as they often brighten the day of even those who just see them coming past.
I once looked at buying one of the fastest kit cars on the planet until I did due diligence on the active and passive safety aspects before sticking with a Porsche Turbo instead for the wife and kids factor and the incredible durability. I remain happy with that choice.
No car can be engineered for all eventualities and this crash does look to have been a worst case side impact scenario.
12-03-2013, 12:11 AM
#214
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They are looking into mechainical issues now for the CGT that might have caused the accident.
Would a possible centerlock failure be possible?
How about coolant pipe failure?
obviously at legal speed limit these issues wouldnt cause an accident to this degree…..
Would a possible centerlock failure be possible?
How about coolant pipe failure?
obviously at legal speed limit these issues wouldnt cause an accident to this degree…..
12-03-2013, 12:31 AM
#215
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...... Don't let them become garage queens. Learn the weaknesses and the strengths. Become comfortable with the dynamics, they didn't design this car to be driven a couple hundred miles a year.......
Also I wouldn't rule out some mechanical failure...again back to low mile cars maybe with the original tires from 05 and no maintenance/inspections done....
Also I wouldn't rule out some mechanical failure...again back to low mile cars maybe with the original tires from 05 and no maintenance/inspections done....
I am one of those low mileage CGT owners - I drive it on occasion on the track and yes, it has dynamics very different than the 680hp GT2 I own, a Cup Car and a pair of RSRs... Once it starts to over-rotate, it becomes even more challenging to catch. Add in too much power, and the car will likely spin like a top. As a result, and the lack of much seat time in the car, I drive it with GREAT respect, caution and attention at all times......
And true, just a few years ago, the original tires from new had only 1.5k miles on them, but weren't worth a crap due to dry rot and the fear of cornering under load and blowing them out..... While they may have looked ok as to tread life, they were far from good. All typical of a car that has sat more than it has been driven. Can't imagine adding heat to the tires quickly and then attempting to corner aggressively with them....... And not to forget that these were street tires, not slicks.....
12-03-2013, 12:46 AM
#216
Tragic loss. But anybody with common sense knows that car wasn't going 45 mph. Heck, not even my wife would take that curve at 45 in her SUV. Let alone a racing driver showing off his CGT on a known road, with no traffic. The only question is how fast he was going, just like the police said. A CGT doesn't even break a sweat at twice the speed limit, so three times sounds about right to me, whether racing or not. And tires weren't cold if the report that the accident was at the end of a 20-minute ride is true (I'd be extremely surprised if a skilled racing driver pushed a car on cold/bad tires). That could also mean there was a driver swap since Walker definitely left the shop as a passenger. Rodas was the better driver, and he also owned the CGT, so less likely to make a dumb mistake... but still hapens to the best of them. And who's surprised the driver's shop is blaming the car? Not me. Whatever was the cause of the accident, it was the driver's fault due to excessive speed (you don't need any footage or police report to know that much). And I'd say that even if he was my father, brother, or son. Let us ALL here learn from that fatal mistake: the streets are no place to push a car, period.
12-03-2013, 01:24 AM
#218
Three Wheelin'
Is it just me or does the Turbo Supra show up really quickly after the crash? http://www.tmz.com/videos/0_oehej0ek/
12-03-2013, 01:32 AM
#219
Poseur
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We need to sit back and await the analysis before condemning anyone. A friend of mine knew the family (he was local here) and related to me that the real tragedy will be a daughter growing up without her father (Paul). She was at the benefit.
A fluid leak was apparently seen leading to the crash site, which can lead to further speculation.
Apparently some 7 fire extinguishers were emptied on the car and yet they were unable to control the fire (to those commenting about the video shot from the street).
As those of you on the CGT forum know, it's a fundamentally safe car just as all Porsches are, but things can get a little squirrley above 8/10s--unless something else enters the picture--e.g., a mechanical failure, and then all bets are off.
May the families be spared further grief.
A fluid leak was apparently seen leading to the crash site, which can lead to further speculation.
Apparently some 7 fire extinguishers were emptied on the car and yet they were unable to control the fire (to those commenting about the video shot from the street).
As those of you on the CGT forum know, it's a fundamentally safe car just as all Porsches are, but things can get a little squirrley above 8/10s--unless something else enters the picture--e.g., a mechanical failure, and then all bets are off.
May the families be spared further grief.
Last edited by Edgy01; 12-03-2013 at 03:05 AM.
12-03-2013, 02:22 AM
#220
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The impact must have either killed or severely injured the driver and passenger IMO because if it would have been a relative low speed hit at least one would have tried or attempted to get out to escape the fire.
12-03-2013, 06:39 AM
#221
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To follow up on wtdoom who is probably one of the most experienced drivers of the CGT: I feel like our little friendly CGT site has just gotten invaded -- its participants used to be make gentlemanly comments about the various different forms of enjoyment that is to be had almost uniquely with this car. Someone well liked, respected and famous then instantly dies in one and we are all taking a pretty big gut check here. But to summarise the CGT in a few ominous sound bits (mostly by those who have never driven it) is pretty disappointing. It drives to absolute perfection until you make a mistake and then it is sadly not very forgiving. Why do think these guys died in one? Well, because obviously they loved the car. Those that drive it all do; it's just the most raw pure driving experience to be had. There is just nothing else like it. Of course, we fear the tragic consequences of driving it to hard -- but are addicted to its incredible handling, it's unbridled speed, it's feeling of control and freedom at the same time. The pure excitement. We that own one can understand its dangers -- in fact, a good fellow rennlister here gave some valuable tips when I was about to first take it on the autobahn. (We're not all some stupid dumb rich idiots; as one rennlister put it: "you just don't fall into a CGT"). I wish I had remembered his advice 2 months later on a racetrack south of Prague. Se leve. But that's part of the deal here with this car.
If you want to see something really super scary surreal extreme, then watch "TT Closer to the Edge" (the worlds most famous motorcycle race) where a death happens almost every year. But watch the whole film to understand why they race it.
The CGT is the best naturally handling car I have ever driven until it's pushed a bit too far and then it is definitely not. These guys that died in this horrific accident drove the car because they undoubtedly loved it (they were the 6th owner) and some combination of events really bad happened. The car is certainly not a death trap, it is beyond incredible in the way it handles. But of course, that tempts you very close to edge of physics. Hitting the car on the side is by far the worst thing -- the two fatal accidents mentioned here on this thread both happened with a side collision. Unfortunately, there is too little barrier to such a collision at a any reasonable spec. If they had hit the tree head on, they would likely still be alive.
Whatever the case, it's really not their fault. **** happens. They were living the life that they undoubtedly had been doing for some time and a really horrible and unlikely series of events occurred (like a plane accident). If people want to hide out under their couches then they have already missed the boat; am I going to be more careful driving my CGT for a while. Well sure... Absolutely (and in have spun out in mine). I am only human. And I wouldn't give that up for anything... In the CGT, I so rarely feel so alive.
RIP. BUT LIVE LIFE.
If you want to see something really super scary surreal extreme, then watch "TT Closer to the Edge" (the worlds most famous motorcycle race) where a death happens almost every year. But watch the whole film to understand why they race it.
The CGT is the best naturally handling car I have ever driven until it's pushed a bit too far and then it is definitely not. These guys that died in this horrific accident drove the car because they undoubtedly loved it (they were the 6th owner) and some combination of events really bad happened. The car is certainly not a death trap, it is beyond incredible in the way it handles. But of course, that tempts you very close to edge of physics. Hitting the car on the side is by far the worst thing -- the two fatal accidents mentioned here on this thread both happened with a side collision. Unfortunately, there is too little barrier to such a collision at a any reasonable spec. If they had hit the tree head on, they would likely still be alive.
Whatever the case, it's really not their fault. **** happens. They were living the life that they undoubtedly had been doing for some time and a really horrible and unlikely series of events occurred (like a plane accident). If people want to hide out under their couches then they have already missed the boat; am I going to be more careful driving my CGT for a while. Well sure... Absolutely (and in have spun out in mine). I am only human. And I wouldn't give that up for anything... In the CGT, I so rarely feel so alive.
RIP. BUT LIVE LIFE.
I know that this accident is tragic but a few more things:
1. I think its undeniable that having an accident in a C-GT is still safer than to have it in a 996/997 etc. The Carbon chassis has a strenght which is not cmparable to normal cars.
2. Given point 1 and seing the pictures, Im more or less 100% sure this accident didnt happen at 45mph per hour, if you look how far the debris was fron the wreck..this was a huge impact, which must have been so strong that none of the two was able to get out and probably got killed already at the spot.
3. The driver being a proffessional race driver: well, Im certainly not better..but for me a proffessional race driver are factory Porsche, Ferrari WEC, F1, Indycar etc. - but these people are on a different planet. They were doing nothing else in their lives since they were 10 years old..trying to catch with this in few years of CUP racing or whatever is impossible..
Time will tell what the cause was but I wouldnt be surprised if it was just "excessive speed". Let all this be another lesson for us..the loss for the families is already big enough. Its very tragic however - like in the case of Sean Edwards, the "innocent passenger" got killed as well.
12-03-2013, 08:21 AM
#223
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This is the video after the crash
http://www.heavy.com/entertainment/2...ies-dead-fire/
Here is the video of the crash from a cctv
http://variety.com/2013/biz/news/pau...eo-1200910922/
this is where the crash happened
https://www.google.com/maps/preview#...!7m1!3b1&fid=0
and here is street view.
http://virtualglobetrotting.com/map/...iew/?service=0
the direction of the car was travelling north up Kelly Johnson parkway and crashed on Hercules Street
http://www.heavy.com/entertainment/2...ies-dead-fire/
Here is the video of the crash from a cctv
http://variety.com/2013/biz/news/pau...eo-1200910922/
this is where the crash happened
https://www.google.com/maps/preview#...!7m1!3b1&fid=0
and here is street view.
http://virtualglobetrotting.com/map/...iew/?service=0
the direction of the car was travelling north up Kelly Johnson parkway and crashed on Hercules Street
12-03-2013, 08:59 AM
#224
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Fully agree what you an WTdoom write..and look, Im not a C-GT owner ..but I would like to own one - one day. I agree that this here leaves a strange taste but we are talking about a supercar here..I can say something about the GT2 for example, its called the "widow maker"..and you see Im still alive, but as I said before..respect is the most important thing. Unfortunately I have also seen things at tack days where this "respect" for a supercar was gone..people having no sense of danger..full throttle on cold tires/brakes, 18year olds takiing Ferrari from daddy on the track etc. with obvious consequences.
I know that this accident is tragic but a few more things:
1. I think its undeniable that having an accident in a C-GT is still safer than to have it in a 996/997 etc. The Carbon chassis has a strenght which is not cmparable to normal cars.
2. Given point 1 and seing the pictures, Im more or less 100% sure this accident didnt happen at 45mph per hour, if you look how far the debris was fron the wreck..this was a huge impact, which must have been so strong that none of the two was able to get out and probably got killed already at the spot.
3. The driver being a proffessional race driver: well, Im certainly not better..but for me a proffessional race driver are factory Porsche, Ferrari WEC, F1, Indycar etc. - but these people are on a different planet. They were doing nothing else in their lives since they were 10 years old..trying to catch with this in few years of CUP racing or whatever is impossible..
Time will tell what the cause was but I wouldnt be surprised if it was just "excessive speed". Let all this be another lesson for us..the loss for the families is already big enough. Its very tragic however - like in the case of Sean Edwards, the "innocent passenger" got killed as well.
I know that this accident is tragic but a few more things:
1. I think its undeniable that having an accident in a C-GT is still safer than to have it in a 996/997 etc. The Carbon chassis has a strenght which is not cmparable to normal cars.
2. Given point 1 and seing the pictures, Im more or less 100% sure this accident didnt happen at 45mph per hour, if you look how far the debris was fron the wreck..this was a huge impact, which must have been so strong that none of the two was able to get out and probably got killed already at the spot.
3. The driver being a proffessional race driver: well, Im certainly not better..but for me a proffessional race driver are factory Porsche, Ferrari WEC, F1, Indycar etc. - but these people are on a different planet. They were doing nothing else in their lives since they were 10 years old..trying to catch with this in few years of CUP racing or whatever is impossible..
Time will tell what the cause was but I wouldnt be surprised if it was just "excessive speed". Let all this be another lesson for us..the loss for the families is already big enough. Its very tragic however - like in the case of Sean Edwards, the "innocent passenger" got killed as well.
12-03-2013, 09:06 AM
#225
