Would you buy the Macan again?
08-13-2020, 09:38 AM
#136
Really difficult to believe you are not trolling for a reaction- your opinion is so clueless.A Pana is no 911, not even close. I have driven both. The sole advantage it possesses is back seats with legroom.
Depending on model, Panamera is an exceptionally versatile and capable car on street and track. In fact, in similarly average hands, Pana GTS will run similar track times to 911 GTS. ‘Superior chassis’ myth notwithstanding. And you can bring 3 friends along for the drive.
I drove my 997 GTS from Boston to Los Angeles- 3 months and 8000 miles through Canada to Seattle and the entire Pacific Coast Highway to LA. It covered those miles in style and comfort.
*** are hardly "narrow" seats. they adjust 18-ways.
And in the mountains or canyons, a 911 can eat a Panamera's lunch.
How fast are you driving in those mountains and canyons? Are you apexing at triple digit speeds practicing for the Pikes Peak race? Nah?
more likely than not, you’re closer to the speed limit, on the brakes at anything resembling a ‘corner’, with sweaty palms, twitchy hands and jerky feet 🤫
A Corolla could glue itself to your fancy GTS rear bumper at those warp speeds.
Did you actually buy a Porsche to drive 55-65 on freeways? If so, you wasted your money.
you bought a factory tuned, comfort compromised race car to drive on the street in 65 mph (55?) limited environment. One of us has a race car driver fantasy playing out in his head. 🚙 🚗 🚙
Sorry, but one need not drive on a track to appreciate "big breaks (sic), huge tires and narrow seats"
To each his own. 🤷🏻
Last edited by pawnstar; 08-13-2020 at 09:47 AM.
08-13-2020, 12:09 PM
#137
So pawnstar, what you're actually saying is the Panamera is a superior commuters car, not a drivers car. Nobody would argue that but by the traditional definition of a drivers car, the 911 is superior.
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Liste-Renn (08-13-2020)
08-13-2020, 01:14 PM
#138
...it’s the best driver’s car Porsche currently makes.
On public roads, Panamera can do everything 911 can do, but do it in supreme comfort 911 simply can not match by design.
In average hands, which is 99% of the drivers, not only is Panamera equal to a comparable version 911 performance on public roads, but may exceed 911 performance on track because for an amateur driver, well balanced Panamera is easier to drive fast than nose light / rear heavy 911, which requires skill to manage weight transitions at high speeds.
there, I said it...what?! Panamera as good as 911 on track? I know ...blasphemy...
But Panamera is no ordinary sedan, it’s a 4 door sports car, just like Porsche says it is.
Last edited by pawnstar; 08-13-2020 at 01:39 PM.
08-13-2020, 01:53 PM
#139
I suggest you re-read what I wrote:
and
I’m going to add a bold claim 😲 to the above:
In average hands, which is 99% of the drivers, not only is Panamera equal to a comparable version 911 performance on public roads, but may exceed 911 performance on track because for an amateur driver, well balanced Panamera is easier to drive fast than nose light / rear heavy 911, which requires skill to manage weight transitions at high speeds.
there, I said it...what?! Panamera as good as 911 on track? I know ...blasphemy...
But Panamera is no ordinary sedan, it’s a 4 door sports car, just like Porsche says it is.
and
I’m going to add a bold claim 😲 to the above:
In average hands, which is 99% of the drivers, not only is Panamera equal to a comparable version 911 performance on public roads, but may exceed 911 performance on track because for an amateur driver, well balanced Panamera is easier to drive fast than nose light / rear heavy 911, which requires skill to manage weight transitions at high speeds.
there, I said it...what?! Panamera as good as 911 on track? I know ...blasphemy...
But Panamera is no ordinary sedan, it’s a 4 door sports car, just like Porsche says it is.
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08-13-2020, 04:14 PM
#140
Rennlist Member
Hey, folks!
Great discussion, but some of you are resorting to insults and name-calling. You can debate the point, but please don't insult the person. Most of us simply want a respectful conversation, please, so let's keep that civility in mind.
Thank you.
Great discussion, but some of you are resorting to insults and name-calling. You can debate the point, but please don't insult the person. Most of us simply want a respectful conversation, please, so let's keep that civility in mind.
Thank you.
08-13-2020, 04:38 PM
#141
Would also be nice if they carried their discussion to the right forum.
08-13-2020, 04:44 PM
#142
08-13-2020, 06:04 PM
#143
Rennlist Member
08-13-2020, 06:10 PM
#144
Rennlist Member
@pawnstar
a panamera is not a drivers car. period. it may be the "best" driving version of a car that has no focused purpose, but, okay? the panamera is a chief generalist. generally good at a lot of things. probably even class leading in a lot of things, althought certainly not in base engine form. but you're making a lot of simply untrue objective claims based on your personal appreciation of the car. which is fine, you can subjectively appreciate a car that suits your needs while acknowledging it's objectively inferior at many things to other cars, especially cars it isn't even competing with i.e. a 911.
a panamera is not a drivers car. period. it may be the "best" driving version of a car that has no focused purpose, but, okay? the panamera is a chief generalist. generally good at a lot of things. probably even class leading in a lot of things, althought certainly not in base engine form. but you're making a lot of simply untrue objective claims based on your personal appreciation of the car. which is fine, you can subjectively appreciate a car that suits your needs while acknowledging it's objectively inferior at many things to other cars, especially cars it isn't even competing with i.e. a 911.
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08-13-2020, 06:38 PM
#145
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Yep, I’m having a tough time appreciating the differences ‘of a superior chassis’ on my daily commute in traffic zipping along at 55 mph. I really wish I had PCCB, Torque Vectoring and SPASM for those frequent 40-55-10 mph sprints. But not to be concerned, I’ll really stretch it’s legs on my favorite back roads on weekends, at 65 mph, with Sport Plus enabled 😲
talk about clueless opinions.
Depending on model, Panamera is an exceptionally versatile and capable car on street and track. In fact, in similarly average hands, Pana GTS will run similar track times to 911 GTS. ‘Superior chassis’ myth notwithstanding. And you can bring 3 friends along for the drive.
Subjective and relative assessment of ‘style and comfort.’ Some drivers do not consider being ‘stuck’ in a small, stiff, sporty car with barely any room for luggage, for 4 months as ‘comfort’. And sorry to hear about your lonely adventure, I’m assuming you drove alone, since there would hardly be any room for two people’s travel stuff in it.
Even if seats adjusted 118 ways, they’d still be narrow. It’s by design, nothing wrong with tight seats and firm bolsters at the track. But some body types couldn’t fit in those tiny things no matter the adjustments.
Hilarious to hear some 911 owners boast how their ‘superior chassis’ 911 will eat everyone’s lunch in ‘twisties’...
How fast are you driving in those mountains and canyons? Are you apexing at triple digit speeds practicing for the Pikes Peak race? Nah?
more likely than not, you’re closer to the speed limit, on the brakes at anything resembling a ‘corner’, with sweaty palms, twitchy hands and jerky feet 🤫
A Corolla could glue itself to your fancy GTS rear bumper at those warp speeds.
i bought a fantastic comfortable performance sedan for real world street use; its reasonably priced compared to competitors, and I drive it within permissible limits.
you bought a factory tuned, comfort compromised race car to drive on the street in 65 mph (55?) limited environment. One of us has a race car driver fantasy playing out in his head. 🚙 🚗 🚙
Yeah, as I wrote above, wish I had Torque Vectoring and SPASM for my brisk 55 mph daily commute.
To each his own. 🤷🏻
talk about clueless opinions.
Depending on model, Panamera is an exceptionally versatile and capable car on street and track. In fact, in similarly average hands, Pana GTS will run similar track times to 911 GTS. ‘Superior chassis’ myth notwithstanding. And you can bring 3 friends along for the drive.
Subjective and relative assessment of ‘style and comfort.’ Some drivers do not consider being ‘stuck’ in a small, stiff, sporty car with barely any room for luggage, for 4 months as ‘comfort’. And sorry to hear about your lonely adventure, I’m assuming you drove alone, since there would hardly be any room for two people’s travel stuff in it.
Even if seats adjusted 118 ways, they’d still be narrow. It’s by design, nothing wrong with tight seats and firm bolsters at the track. But some body types couldn’t fit in those tiny things no matter the adjustments.
Hilarious to hear some 911 owners boast how their ‘superior chassis’ 911 will eat everyone’s lunch in ‘twisties’...
How fast are you driving in those mountains and canyons? Are you apexing at triple digit speeds practicing for the Pikes Peak race? Nah?
more likely than not, you’re closer to the speed limit, on the brakes at anything resembling a ‘corner’, with sweaty palms, twitchy hands and jerky feet 🤫
A Corolla could glue itself to your fancy GTS rear bumper at those warp speeds.
i bought a fantastic comfortable performance sedan for real world street use; its reasonably priced compared to competitors, and I drive it within permissible limits.
you bought a factory tuned, comfort compromised race car to drive on the street in 65 mph (55?) limited environment. One of us has a race car driver fantasy playing out in his head. 🚙 🚗 🚙
Yeah, as I wrote above, wish I had Torque Vectoring and SPASM for my brisk 55 mph daily commute.
To each his own. 🤷🏻
Also, a 911 will destroy a Panamera on a mountain road, yea, not if the guy is driving 55 MPH, but then why buy the 911 at all. My Porsches see speeds of 75-110 MPH virtually every time they leave the garage, and no, a Corolla won't be hanging on my rear bumper when I drive a mountain road in my supercharged 997 (475 HP with race suspension & PCCBs), my supercharged 928 (350 HP), or my heavily modded Cayenne Turbo S (650 HP with PDCC & PCCBs) - I have these cars for their high-speed capability and handling because that's how they were made to be driven, so that's how I drive them. If the Corolla guy wants to tell me what he'd like for lunch at the end of the drive, I can have that ordered and sitting on the table for him when he finally makes it to the restaurant. Also, a turbo 4 doesn't feel like a turbo 6 which doesn't feel like a forced induction v8 and the naturally aspirated versions of these feel different yet again. A turbo 4 compared to a turbo 6 is not as smooth, has to work harder to achieve the same speed, has less in reserve for passing, etc.
The Panamera is a "jack of all trades, but master of none" sort of vehicle - it won't hang with a sports car - it doesn't hold as much as a Cayenne, etc. It's a large, capable 4-door sedan and in GTS, Turbo, or Turbo S mode is actually quite impressive - in base setup, not so much. A high end Macan is actually more nimble and a sportier driving experience than the Panamera so for someone who liked his M3 or his 996TT but wants more comfort and space, and maybe light towing capability, with 85% of the usable performance a Macan GTS or Turbo is an excellent choice.
Last edited by Petza914; 08-13-2020 at 06:49 PM.
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08-13-2020, 10:33 PM
#146
Rennlist Member
Why anyone buys a Porsche to drive 55 MPH on the highway or 55-65 MPH in the twisties I don't understand, unless it's just for the status of the badge on the hood, but for k9turbo asking if a Macan with the base motor is going to have enough juice for them to like it when he's coming from an M3 or a 996TT with a RWD conversion, that answer is a capital NO. No base model Porsche is going to make someone coming from these cars happy no matter how much older or more mature they've gotten - the base models of all Porsches just get you into the brand if that's your goal, but aren't particularly sporty. I might recommend a base model to my Mom or my daughter who just got her license as my Mom doesn't care about speed or handling and my newly driving daughter doesn't need a lot of power or a more expensive vehicle to get herself into trouble before she has more experience, but for anyone who considers themself an automotive enthusiast, the S model is the minimum point of entry. For me, who's mostly automotive insane, the top of the line in every class is what I start with and then modify them further from there.
Also, a 911 will destroy a Panamera on a mountain road, yea, not if the guy is driving 55 MPH, but then why buy the 911 at all. My Porsches see speeds of 75-110 MPH virtually every time they leave the garage, and no, a Corolla won't be hanging on my rear bumper when I drive a mountain road in my supercharged 997 (475 HP with race suspension & PCCBs), my supercharged 928 (350 HP), or my heavily modded Cayenne Turbo S (650 HP with PDCC & PCCBs) - I have these cars for their high-speed capability and handling because that's how they were made to be driven, so that's how I drive them. If the Corolla guy wants to tell me what he'd like for lunch at the end of the drive, I can have that ordered and sitting on the table for him when he finally makes it to the restaurant. Also, a turbo 4 doesn't feel like a turbo 6 which doesn't feel like a forced induction v8 and the naturally aspirated versions of these feel different yet again. A turbo 4 compared to a turbo 6 is not as smooth, has to work harder to achieve the same speed, has less in reserve for passing, etc.
The Panamera is a "jack of all trades, but master of none" sort of vehicle - it won't hang with a sports car - it doesn't hold as much as a Cayenne, etc. It's a large, capable 4-door sedan and in GTS, Turbo, or Turbo S mode is actually quite impressive - in base setup, not so much. A high end Macan is actually more nimble and a sportier driving experience than the Panamera so for someone who liked his M3 or his 996TT but wants more comfort and space, and maybe light towing capability, with 85% of the usable performance a Macan GTS or Turbo is an excellent choice.
Also, a 911 will destroy a Panamera on a mountain road, yea, not if the guy is driving 55 MPH, but then why buy the 911 at all. My Porsches see speeds of 75-110 MPH virtually every time they leave the garage, and no, a Corolla won't be hanging on my rear bumper when I drive a mountain road in my supercharged 997 (475 HP with race suspension & PCCBs), my supercharged 928 (350 HP), or my heavily modded Cayenne Turbo S (650 HP with PDCC & PCCBs) - I have these cars for their high-speed capability and handling because that's how they were made to be driven, so that's how I drive them. If the Corolla guy wants to tell me what he'd like for lunch at the end of the drive, I can have that ordered and sitting on the table for him when he finally makes it to the restaurant. Also, a turbo 4 doesn't feel like a turbo 6 which doesn't feel like a forced induction v8 and the naturally aspirated versions of these feel different yet again. A turbo 4 compared to a turbo 6 is not as smooth, has to work harder to achieve the same speed, has less in reserve for passing, etc.
The Panamera is a "jack of all trades, but master of none" sort of vehicle - it won't hang with a sports car - it doesn't hold as much as a Cayenne, etc. It's a large, capable 4-door sedan and in GTS, Turbo, or Turbo S mode is actually quite impressive - in base setup, not so much. A high end Macan is actually more nimble and a sportier driving experience than the Panamera so for someone who liked his M3 or his 996TT but wants more comfort and space, and maybe light towing capability, with 85% of the usable performance a Macan GTS or Turbo is an excellent choice.
i really don't think many people are cross shopping a Panamera with an S class/7 series/A8... for porsche buyers its a brand decision and porsche knows that. they know someone will pay a 20% premium to the segment average for a car that is in many cases inferior and only superior in situations said drivers will never utilize/expose the car to.
even with the Macan, i think you have Porsche dudes buying them for their wife, daughter, girlfriend, assistant, temporary family car, etc. (i got one for my wife as our family car (S), and i got my assistant one (base)) or as a daily driver for themselves because they are brand loyal. the macan today is what the bmw 3 series was until the macan came out. it's just great at everything. especially with the improved interior in the 2019+.
but even the macan is a crappy value compared to an SQ5 which is 95% the same car (and significantly better in some ways). the distinction only makes since if you're A. a porsche sports car owner, because they do still FEEL like a porsche. B. you want the badge and are willing yo overpay for it.
Macan is my forever car. as i said, i am on my 3rd. i'll keep getting them. it works for me.
if i wanted a big sedan, well, i'd never have to make that decision because i'd never drive a big sedan. but i'd question the panamera's value. if i wanted a bigger SUV, i probably wouldn't go cayenne either. everything else... i'm a total fanboy and will live, breathe, die porsche forever.
but let's stop confusing what subjectively suits our needs as objective facts.
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Liste-Renn (08-13-2020)
08-13-2020, 10:36 PM
#147
That's the beauty of having choices - I have the base Macan and love it! If I were to drive everyday out of the garage between 75 and 110 mph, I would find myself in jail for an extended period of time - LOL - the base is a great DD, plenty of get up and go and saved lots of $$$ which will help lower my golf handicap from 2 to 0 - LOL
08-13-2020, 10:38 PM
#148
Rennlist Member
That's the beauty of having choices - I have the base Macan and love it! If I were to drive everyday out of the garage between 75 and 110 mph, I would find myself in jail for an extended period of time - LOL - the base is a great DD, plenty of get up and go and saved lots of $$$ which will help lower my golf handicap from 2 to 0 - LOL
08-13-2020, 11:54 PM
#149
Rennlist Member
My intent was not an ad hominem attack- just commenting on a post. Is that not the reason a forum exists?
You redacted "inane" from my post. I never attacked the poster who wrote the silly opinion, rather the opinion itself.
in·ane
adjective
adjective: inane
- silly; stupid
Some synonyms of "inane":
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k9turbo (08-21-2020)
