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Got 31 laps in at Thunderhill yesterday. East track CCW. It was cold for NorCal, 53 degrees F and was pouring rain when we arrived. Wipers at full speed type rain. By the time we ran our first session, the track was soaked but the rain had mostly stopped. Somewhere theres a photo of a 10 foot roster tail behind my car going into T1. By the end of the day we had mostly a dry track.
Most relevant and accurate data captured lap was a 2:13:40 and maxed out at 127.19 mph on the front straight. Data can be found here
I need coaching. I have no idea how some of you guys are running 1:58's. Yes, I had cold tires and passengers, but 15 seconds? Give me 2 seconds for passengers and 2 more for tire grip and I think I can pull 2 seconds off my braking points if I got aggressive, theres still a major gap...but its cool, there some really fast dudes in NorCal. My goal for the season is to run 2:05's consistently. I'm declaring it now!
Findings for the day:
I'm sick of not having good and complete data. The lack of true TPS and brake pressure makes looking at times pretty useless. We need AIM or someone to sort this **** out.
Car is really dialed in and I'm now more comfortable pushing harder in it.
That said, I may go a little more aggressive with camber on next setup.
Brakes were epic even in the wet.
Cabin vented well and I didn't have any fogging issues like I have had in other cars.
In the wet, I was running 2:40's which was slow slow slow. I was scared on the PSC2s they felt like they would let go with zero warning at all.
I started the day running 30 psi all the way around. It was an OK place to start with standing water on the track. They gained about 1-2 psi after about 7 laps.
ABS is really subtle and progressive in the rain.
The PSC2s are garbage in the cold and wet. The most heat I was able to get into the tires was 114 F and I was told by the tire guy that I need at least 140 F to get them to start to stick
We really worked with the tires once we had a dryish line. Ultimately we wound up running 31 in the front and 34 in the rears with the tire temps never getting above 115 F. This provided the most grip in the cold of all the combinations we tested. I would recommend this if you are at the track and its less than 60 F outside.
Cars going in the next couple of weeks for its GMG bar and seat/sub mounting plates, ProfiII HANS harnesses and Racetech bucket seats. We are going to mount the harnesses to the firewall. I'll make sure I post and have a lot of photos of the install.
I'm not sure what I'll be able to pull off on the GT4, but on the boxster spyder I have consistent 2:04 over the top and 2:01 bypass using NT01, which is comparable to cup2. I have plenty of solo data from the spyder I could share with you. We could share gt4 data once I get mine in a few weeks.
I'm not sure what I'll be able to pull off on the GT4, but on the boxster spyder I have consistent 2:04 over the top and 2:01 bypass using NT01, which is comparable to cup2. I have plenty of solo data from the spyder I could share with you. We could share gt4 data once I get mine in a few weeks.
I would love to share some data. I'm hoping we can get the solo DL install documented and tested to make sharing easier.
Stupid question: why are you getting the bar if you aren't mounting the harnesses to it?
It's a good question and I went back and forth between all options. In the end, BR Racing are the guys I trust with my car and they have had multiple customers barrel roll cars with GMG bars. Luckily each driver got out of the cars on their own. They recommend that anything that can provide any assistance in a disaster scenario is worth having and I agree given how quick the GT4 is. I hope it's never tested or called into question and that people laugh at me for spending extra money on a non tested bar. Im OK going a little overkill on safety, and if something perfect comes down the line later, this can be pulled out. Some will debate the technical merits of this decision and that's ok, I'm just gambling on a little extra insurance in hopes I never need it.
To you, perhaps...and you get the gold star for the first criticism!
To me, neither does guys buying this car and never taking it to a track, $25k of interior add ons, checking thickness of paint before deliver, washing the car daily, putting logo decals on for companies that don't pay the driver, demanding PDK as an option, paying $40k over MSRP or passing on a allocation that didn't have LWBs. But to each their own.
I want a bar there to feel better about taking the car to the limit. Doing the mounting plates ensures perfect angles for the specific seat I bought and my body in it. None of the manufactures of these bars have a solution that works for everyone. Some even make multiple models to fit different customer segments. So, from the perspective of a solution that fits and works for me, it makes perfect sense given the challenge that Porsche and DOT forced upon the US market by restricting the factory offering. Everything in the aftermarket is a compromise unless you are having full 6 point cages welded into frame, even that's a compromise if you plan to keep the car street legal.
Some may say it's poserish, but I run 20+ days a year with my cars outside of races. It's likely that they don't.
It's a good question and I went back and forth between all options. In the end, BR Racing are the guys I trust with my car and they have had multiple customers barrel roll cars with GMG bars. Luckily each driver got out of the cars on their own.
Any other info on this? Did the GMG bars keep the roof fully intact? Any issues with the bottoms of the vertical supports punching through the car floor, as in that horrible Mustang crash pic that's been circulating the forums?
Originally Posted by katmeho
To you, perhaps...and you get the gold star for the first criticism!
To me, neither does guys buying this car and never taking it to a track, $25k of interior add ons, checking thickness of paint before deliver, washing the car daily, putting logo decals on for companies that don't pay the driver, demanding PDK as an option, paying $40k over MSRP or passing on a allocation that didn't have LWBs. But to each their own.
I want a bar there to feel better about taking the car to the limit. Doing the mounting plates ensures perfect angles for the specific seat I bought and my body in it. None of the manufactures of these bars have a solution that works for everyone. Some even make multiple models to fit different customer segments. So, from the perspective of a solution that fits and works for me, it makes perfect sense given the challenge that Porsche and DOT forced upon the US market by restricting the factory offering. Everything in the aftermarket is a compromise unless you are having full 6 point cages welded into frame, even that's a compromise if you plan to keep the car street legal.
Some may say it's poserish, but I run 20+ days a year with my cars outside of races. It's likely that they don't.
Agreed, and note that Porsche itself does this in their RoW clubsport option package--the rollbar isn't needed for shoulder harness mounting, since the shoulder harnesses attach to the firewall/bulkhead instead. But they still put the rollbar in...
Any other info on this? Did the GMG bars keep the roof fully intact? Any issues with the bottoms of the vertical supports punching through the car floor, as in that horrible Mustang crash pic that's been circulating the forums?
I was only told the stories and don't have the details and wasn't there. It's my understanding that the bars indeed held up and provided extra strength to prevent collapse. No punch through. These were not GT4's though, they were other cars and bar designs. The quality and strength of the GMG bars in general is very strong and solid, has been a factor in my / BR's decision.
In order for that failure situation to happen with the GT4 GMG bar, you would have to shear the front bolts that anchor the bar in half (which is connected into the frame, not the floor) and then still have enough force to drive the posts through the floor area which may be a combination of floor board and chassis/frame. And then still collapse the roof pillars that Porsche designed and engineered for roll over tolerance. I hope no GT4 owner ever has to find out if this is enough to protect them.
I think the most interesting thing that I didn't consider when I started evaluating options was the reasons why nobody calls their hardware "roll bars". It's not because they do or do not provide roll over protection. Its because in order to legitimately call them a roll over bar, there would have to be a massive amount of testing of the bars to determine the strength and rigidity of the hardware. The shops would have to run repeated tests, come up with real numbers and publish exactly what their product can withstand. The tolerance would have to be known and documented and all of that work / testing / damaged gear / retests / rework would be super expensive. It would make addressing this market cost prohibitive. And the people who want all of those real numbers and testing, those are the racers who are putting in custom cages to full blown race cars and won't look at these offerings for their purposes. So, rather than do all that expensive work, the manufacturers are careful not to call the product something they are not tested to be. It doesn't mean that these products can't / don't still function in ways that are not advertised. To me, this sounds very real and when you combine the costs plus any liability associated with a product failure in this scenario, I don't blame the vendors/manufacturers. for their reservations and caution in commitments.
tl;dr in BOLD Got 31 laps in at Thunderhill yesterday. East track CCW. It was cold for NorCal, 53 degrees F and was pouring rain when we arrived. Wipers at full speed type rain. By the time we ran our first session, the track was soaked but the rain had mostly stopped. Somewhere theres a photo of a 10 foot roster tail behind my car going into T1. By the end of the day we had mostly a dry track. Most relevant and accurate data captured lap was a 2:13:40 and maxed out at 127.19 mph on the front straight. Data can be found here I need coaching. I have no idea how some of you guys are running 1:58's. Yes, I had cold tires and passengers, but 15 seconds? Give me 2 seconds for passengers and 2 more for tire grip and I think I can pull 2 seconds off my braking points if I got aggressive, theres still a major gap...but its cool, there some really fast dudes in NorCal. My goal for the season is to run 2:05's consistently. I'm declaring it now! Findings for the day:[*]I'm sick of not having good and complete data. The lack of true TPS and brake pressure makes looking at times pretty useless. We need AIM or someone to sort this **** out.[*]Car is really dialed in and I'm now more comfortable pushing harder in it.[*]That said, I may go a little more aggressive with camber on next setup.[*]Brakes were epic even in the wet.[*]Cabin vented well and I didn't have any fogging issues like I have had in other cars.[*]In the wet, I was running 2:40's which was slow slow slow. I was scared on the PSC2s they felt like they would let go with zero warning at all.[*]I started the day running 30 psi all the way around. It was an OK place to start with standing water on the track. They gained about 1-2 psi after about 7 laps.[*]ABS is really subtle and progressive in the rain.[*]The PSC2s are garbage in the cold and wet. The most heat I was able to get into the tires was 114 F and I was told by the tire guy that I need at least 140 F to get them to start to stick[*]We really worked with the tires once we had a dryish line. Ultimately we wound up running 31 in the front and 34 in the rears with the tire temps never getting above 115 F. This provided the most grip in the cold of all the combinations we tested. I would recommend this if you are at the track and its less than 60 F outside. Cars going in the next couple of weeks for its BGB bar and seat/sub mounting plates, ProfiII HANS harnesses and Racetech bucket seats. We are going to mount the harnesses to the firewall. I'll make sure I post and have a lot of photos of the install. Slippery when wet.
I couldn't figure out why I got all excited and then very confused (sorting of like when you start dating); your reply says you got a BGB bar but I think you meant a GMG bar, no? Either way you are providing good real world data and reinforcing what we have said all along. Keep up the great work and congrats on the success of your car thus far.
To you, perhaps...and you get the gold star for the first criticism!
To me, neither does guys buying this car and never taking it to a track, $25k of interior add ons, checking thickness of paint before deliver, washing the car daily, putting logo decals on for companies that don't pay the driver, demanding PDK as an option, paying $40k over MSRP or passing on a allocation that didn't have LWBs. But to each their own.
I want a bar there to feel better about taking the car to the limit. Doing the mounting plates ensures perfect angles for the specific seat I bought and my body in it. None of the manufactures of these bars have a solution that works for everyone. Some even make multiple models to fit different customer segments. So, from the perspective of a solution that fits and works for me, it makes perfect sense given the challenge that Porsche and DOT forced upon the US market by restricting the factory offering. Everything in the aftermarket is a compromise unless you are having full 6 point cages welded into frame, even that's a compromise if you plan to keep the car street legal.
Some may say it's poserish, but I run 20+ days a year with my cars outside of races. It's likely that they don't.
My comment was regarding yes to harness/roil bar but no to harnesses.
Originally Posted by paradocs98
Agreed, and note that Porsche itself does this in their RoW clubsport option package--the rollbar isn't needed for shoulder harness mounting, since the shoulder harnesses attach to the firewall/bulkhead instead. But they still put the rollbar in...
I thing harness had more safety (Hans) than a roll / harness bar.
I'd put in harnesses, provided that mounting is solid before a bar?
great thread
01-17-2016, 04:41 PM
Thunderhill Jan 16 2016
