GT4 - Unlocking the Power Potential!
05-10-2017, 09:45 PM
#931
Race Director
Not directed at you or anyone in particular. Just mean that the mods for the gt4/spyder seem to have proven SO effective, (in that engine was clearly crippled at the factory) that sometimes I'm surprised this is still a surprise to anyone. I can't think of another NA engine which responds so well to modification.
One footnote.. make sure you get a chance to hear the sound with just sport headers added (not exhaust and not race headers)... you might find its the perfect volume augmentation... a goldilocks modification if you will.
I love this car..
One footnote.. make sure you get a chance to hear the sound with just sport headers added (not exhaust and not race headers)... you might find its the perfect volume augmentation... a goldilocks modification if you will.
I love this car..
05-11-2017, 03:31 AM
#932
Intermediate
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Cheshire
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legin View Post
I see an alternative order which is Tune, TB then header. I have tried Tune and TB and would say the tune also delivers on the low end torque dip that the headers apparently do it makes it more responsive low down compared to OEM tune.
This is the Ehresmann upgrade path build up as it happens. The ease of tune install and removal makes it the best bang for buck, when i fitted TB it was better for sure but not so much and a pain to remove and refit for warranty work. Currently i have just the tune and undecided whether to bother with TB refit. I cant comment on the headers as I havent tried them. Anyone done the headers as the final mod that can comment ?
Haven't really heard of anyone pursuing it that way before as it is a little unorthodox. Would love to set you up with some headers as i'm quite confident they will exceed your expectations of performance improvements. Would also be a rare occasion to get feedback on the improvement from someone starting on the opposite end of the spectrum.
Hi John. I would say unorthodox as its the way Ehresmann build up and he is generally recognised as the father of these mods. The reason for my route is I am only trying to achieve more top end rush and not really interested in outright performance although they are linked of course.
Appreciate the offer of headers but its unlikely as it is yet more mods i have to reverse when the car goes in to opc and im already fed up with the taking the TB on and off. Looking at the curves above and tune only curves I have seen that indicate the tune and TB together deliver the most top end. I also run KN filters.
The big advantage to someone like switchface and me is that the tune and tb will maintain the original sound he desires although I would say for his benefit the tune only sounds identical and the tune +tb sounds slightly different, it is a little more induction noise of air flowing at throttle blip and smoother /quieter mid to high openings. Not what you would expect but all in a good way. The tune only improves the mid range response mainly. So far its the Tune that I like best the TB is a marginal upgrade on top. Again this is all Butt dyno but these dynos are the ones that count in my world.
Originally Posted by legin View Post
I see an alternative order which is Tune, TB then header. I have tried Tune and TB and would say the tune also delivers on the low end torque dip that the headers apparently do it makes it more responsive low down compared to OEM tune.
This is the Ehresmann upgrade path build up as it happens. The ease of tune install and removal makes it the best bang for buck, when i fitted TB it was better for sure but not so much and a pain to remove and refit for warranty work. Currently i have just the tune and undecided whether to bother with TB refit. I cant comment on the headers as I havent tried them. Anyone done the headers as the final mod that can comment ?
Haven't really heard of anyone pursuing it that way before as it is a little unorthodox. Would love to set you up with some headers as i'm quite confident they will exceed your expectations of performance improvements. Would also be a rare occasion to get feedback on the improvement from someone starting on the opposite end of the spectrum.
Hi John. I would say unorthodox as its the way Ehresmann build up and he is generally recognised as the father of these mods. The reason for my route is I am only trying to achieve more top end rush and not really interested in outright performance although they are linked of course.
Appreciate the offer of headers but its unlikely as it is yet more mods i have to reverse when the car goes in to opc and im already fed up with the taking the TB on and off. Looking at the curves above and tune only curves I have seen that indicate the tune and TB together deliver the most top end. I also run KN filters.
The big advantage to someone like switchface and me is that the tune and tb will maintain the original sound he desires although I would say for his benefit the tune only sounds identical and the tune +tb sounds slightly different, it is a little more induction noise of air flowing at throttle blip and smoother /quieter mid to high openings. Not what you would expect but all in a good way. The tune only improves the mid range response mainly. So far its the Tune that I like best the TB is a marginal upgrade on top. Again this is all Butt dyno but these dynos are the ones that count in my world.
05-12-2017, 02:13 PM
#933
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Not sure if this (or either of the John's) comments are necessarily directed at me, but I'm not skeptical of our tuner's contributions, just trying to better understand the dyno plots and educate myself.
I had some Fabspeed bits and race headers installed on my 987.1 CS. I was extremely happy with their customer service and communication, but I added those mods, not in search of power, but because the car sounded pretty tame in stock form. I got just the amount of aggression I was seeking and was very happy.
For my GT4, I like the sound it has now and don't want to change the pitch or tone too much. I can see how the full package makes a difference, but that brings up warranty concerns for me. Everyone has said headers-only is a great addition, I don't doubt it, but I imagine much of that is feel/sound. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but I'm not necessarily seeking that. I would be interested in more power, but am weighing that against unwanted sound changes and/or power delivery and warranty concerns, as this is my daily driver.
There are numerous threads, for a variety of mods, showing different dyno plots...but despite asking, I've yet to see a video of a pull between a stock and modified car to see how those mods translate into performance. Sharkwerks' original Kermit video did a great job of this, by showing a stock GT3 vs. their 3.9 Kermit so you can visualize the measurable difference their car pulled on the stock one. I'd love to see something like this - wouldn't everyone?
This isn't calling out anyone, or saying I'm skeptical, I'm simply trying to weigh my own internal cost/benefit analysis.
I had some Fabspeed bits and race headers installed on my 987.1 CS. I was extremely happy with their customer service and communication, but I added those mods, not in search of power, but because the car sounded pretty tame in stock form. I got just the amount of aggression I was seeking and was very happy.
For my GT4, I like the sound it has now and don't want to change the pitch or tone too much. I can see how the full package makes a difference, but that brings up warranty concerns for me. Everyone has said headers-only is a great addition, I don't doubt it, but I imagine much of that is feel/sound. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but I'm not necessarily seeking that. I would be interested in more power, but am weighing that against unwanted sound changes and/or power delivery and warranty concerns, as this is my daily driver.
There are numerous threads, for a variety of mods, showing different dyno plots...but despite asking, I've yet to see a video of a pull between a stock and modified car to see how those mods translate into performance. Sharkwerks' original Kermit video did a great job of this, by showing a stock GT3 vs. their 3.9 Kermit so you can visualize the measurable difference their car pulled on the stock one. I'd love to see something like this - wouldn't everyone?
This isn't calling out anyone, or saying I'm skeptical, I'm simply trying to weigh my own internal cost/benefit analysis.
Simply a general statement that CAlexio hit on the right head below.In regards to your goals, if you are truly steadfast on not changing the sound then as Legin mentions below your greatest ROI on performance is going to be the IPD plenum/82mm Throttle Body, COBB Accessport/Protune, and throwing in a set of BMC Filters for good measure.
Now, if you are open to a bit of a change to you exhaust sound I feel the Sport Headers would be a great addition to that. Don't think of it as an exhaust sound change, but accentuation. As CAlexio mentioned, Sport Headers/PSE is a phenomenal combo for a primarily street driven car. Heck if he is open to it, maybe you can catch a flight down to SF and go for a spin with him out to a Cars and Coffee on the weekend, i'm sure he won't bite....much lol. I believe at this point he has our Sport Headers, IPD Plenum/TB, and COBB/Protune so it would be a really nice comparison for you.
Not directed at you or anyone in particular. Just mean that the mods for the gt4/spyder seem to have proven SO effective, (in that engine was clearly crippled at the factory) that sometimes I'm surprised this is still a surprise to anyone. I can't think of another NA engine which responds so well to modification.
One footnote.. make sure you get a chance to hear the sound with just sport headers added (not exhaust and not race headers)... you might find its the perfect volume augmentation... a goldilocks modification if you will.
I love this car..
One footnote.. make sure you get a chance to hear the sound with just sport headers added (not exhaust and not race headers)... you might find its the perfect volume augmentation... a goldilocks modification if you will.
I love this car..
Hi John. I would say unorthodox as its the way Ehresmann build up and he is generally recognised as the father of these mods. The reason for my route is I am only trying to achieve more top end rush and not really interested in outright performance although they are linked of course.
Appreciate the offer of headers but its unlikely as it is yet more mods i have to reverse when the car goes in to opc and im already fed up with the taking the TB on and off. Looking at the curves above and tune only curves I have seen that indicate the tune and TB together deliver the most top end. I also run KN filters.
The big advantage to someone like switchface and me is that the tune and tb will maintain the original sound he desires although I would say for his benefit the tune only sounds identical and the tune +tb sounds slightly different, it is a little more induction noise of air flowing at throttle blip and smoother /quieter mid to high openings. Not what you would expect but all in a good way. The tune only improves the mid range response mainly. So far its the Tune that I like best the TB is a marginal upgrade on top. Again this is all Butt dyno but these dynos are the ones that count in my world.
Appreciate the offer of headers but its unlikely as it is yet more mods i have to reverse when the car goes in to opc and im already fed up with the taking the TB on and off. Looking at the curves above and tune only curves I have seen that indicate the tune and TB together deliver the most top end. I also run KN filters.
The big advantage to someone like switchface and me is that the tune and tb will maintain the original sound he desires although I would say for his benefit the tune only sounds identical and the tune +tb sounds slightly different, it is a little more induction noise of air flowing at throttle blip and smoother /quieter mid to high openings. Not what you would expect but all in a good way. The tune only improves the mid range response mainly. So far its the Tune that I like best the TB is a marginal upgrade on top. Again this is all Butt dyno but these dynos are the ones that count in my world.
__________________
Porsche Performance Specialist
John@Fabspeed.com
215-618-9796
Fabspeed Motorsport USA
155 Commerce Drive Fort Washington, PA 19034
www.Fabspeed.com
Porsche Performance Specialist
John@Fabspeed.com
215-618-9796
Fabspeed Motorsport USA
155 Commerce Drive Fort Washington, PA 19034
www.Fabspeed.com
05-12-2017, 03:51 PM
#934
John/Fabspeed
All I have to say that your mods have radically transformed the car for the better and that sound it now emits with race headers and stock PSE is positively orgasmic, I'm sure you can attest to that as you have listened to its song 4 days ago on the track...
Thanks Buddy!!
All I have to say that your mods have radically transformed the car for the better and that sound it now emits with race headers and stock PSE is positively orgasmic, I'm sure you can attest to that as you have listened to its song 4 days ago on the track...
Thanks Buddy!!
05-12-2017, 04:56 PM
#935
Race Car
05-15-2017, 08:33 AM
#937
Instructor
I see an alternative order which is Tune, TB then header. I have tried Tune and TB and would say the tune also delivers on the low end torque dip that the headers apparently do it makes it more responsive low down compared to OEM tune.
This is the Ehresmann upgrade path build up as it happens. The ease of tune install and removal makes it the best bang for buck, when i fitted TB it was better for sure but not so much and a pain to remove and refit for warranty work. Currently i have just the tune and undecided whether to bother with TB refit. I cant comment on the headers as I havent tried them. Anyone done the headers as the final mod that can comment ?
This is the Ehresmann upgrade path build up as it happens. The ease of tune install and removal makes it the best bang for buck, when i fitted TB it was better for sure but not so much and a pain to remove and refit for warranty work. Currently i have just the tune and undecided whether to bother with TB refit. I cant comment on the headers as I havent tried them. Anyone done the headers as the final mod that can comment ?
05-15-2017, 10:21 AM
#938
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Jens will do a special file for you if you're running with & without cats; also the firwmare is revised to expect the larger TB so it's not an off the shelf generic file. it's been done in stages.
05-15-2017, 01:59 PM
#939
Rennlist Member
Good to know.
05-15-2017, 05:36 PM
#940
Rennlist Member
As I posted in another thread...all I can say is my buddy's spyder with the fabspeed kit is mind blowing.
Sounds is bananas and it is an amazing upgrade...throttle response is massively improved, it erases the low end dead spot I feel in my GT4 now and it just hauls ***.
It takes a great car and makes it truly epic...one that you'd never sell.
I know some guys are worried about mods...I modded my 997TT like 10 years ago and it transformed the car and has been bulletproof. Properly engineered mods really do improve the car without worry of damaging the motor. These cars are rock solid.
Sounds is bananas and it is an amazing upgrade...throttle response is massively improved, it erases the low end dead spot I feel in my GT4 now and it just hauls ***.
It takes a great car and makes it truly epic...one that you'd never sell.
I know some guys are worried about mods...I modded my 997TT like 10 years ago and it transformed the car and has been bulletproof. Properly engineered mods really do improve the car without worry of damaging the motor. These cars are rock solid.
05-15-2017, 07:38 PM
#941
^My friend did the same mods to the GT4 and completely agrees
05-15-2017, 07:45 PM
#942
Rennlist Member
As I posted in another thread...all I can say is my buddy's spyder with the fabspeed kit is mind blowing.
Sounds is bananas and it is an amazing upgrade...throttle response is massively improved, it erases the low end dead spot I feel in my GT4 now and it just hauls ***.
It takes a great car and makes it truly epic...one that you'd never sell.
I know some guys are worried about mods...I modded my 997TT like 10 years ago and it transformed the car and has been bulletproof. Properly engineered mods really do improve the car without worry of damaging the motor. These cars are rock solid.
Sounds is bananas and it is an amazing upgrade...throttle response is massively improved, it erases the low end dead spot I feel in my GT4 now and it just hauls ***.
It takes a great car and makes it truly epic...one that you'd never sell.
I know some guys are worried about mods...I modded my 997TT like 10 years ago and it transformed the car and has been bulletproof. Properly engineered mods really do improve the car without worry of damaging the motor. These cars are rock solid.
Sure has me looking forward to the end of my warranty period
Regards
Ed
05-15-2017, 11:59 PM
#943
Burning Brakes
Well, I guess it's time to nuke a warranty...
05-16-2017, 09:57 AM
#944
Burning Brakes
As I posted in another thread...all I can say is my buddy's spyder with the fabspeed kit is mind blowing.
Sounds is bananas and it is an amazing upgrade...throttle response is massively improved, it erases the low end dead spot I feel in my GT4 now and it just hauls ***.
It takes a great car and makes it truly epic...one that you'd never sell.
I know some guys are worried about mods...I modded my 997TT like 10 years ago and it transformed the car and has been bulletproof. Properly engineered mods really do improve the car without worry of damaging the motor. These cars are rock solid.
Sounds is bananas and it is an amazing upgrade...throttle response is massively improved, it erases the low end dead spot I feel in my GT4 now and it just hauls ***.
It takes a great car and makes it truly epic...one that you'd never sell.
I know some guys are worried about mods...I modded my 997TT like 10 years ago and it transformed the car and has been bulletproof. Properly engineered mods really do improve the car without worry of damaging the motor. These cars are rock solid.
Don't suppose anyone has sport headers in the southern U.K. or San Diego where I'll be in a few weeks do they??
05-16-2017, 10:40 AM
#945
Speaking of warranty - that is the main reason why I have not done anything to my Spyder yet. What concerns me is the moment I do these mods and then what happens if my transmission bites the dust like these things are wont to do apparently? Porsche is gonna tell me to **** off because I will have voided my warranty no? How are people getting over that mental hump or have folks not considered that at all?