When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
To give John a hand here....if you use real insulating ceramic coating you do have some benefits but I have to stress the part of real-insulating coating, not a cosmetic coating.
At least the headers would benefit from the coating as you would be limiting the potential to introduce more heat into the engine bay.
The headers are nicely tucked on the side of the engine and while they do get some fresh air from below that only happens at speed and you still get some heat trapped....we all know that hot air rises so this hot air/heat gets trapped on the engine bay, nowhere to go on the mid-engine chassis (contrary to the 911)....think of an oven in Bake mode!!!! This just contributes to heat soak of intake parts. Also the plug coils get really hot during track sessions.
There's also the theory that containing heat on exhaust parts helps maintain the exhaust gas velocity, so in theory, you end up with a more efficient exhaust system.
Thanks for the reply. I think I should have been a bit more specific in what I was asking. BGB stated that in temps over 70-80 degrees the computer starts interfering with the performance gains of the modifications. That's the first time I've heard a specific ambient temperature quoted. What I was wondering was if there is any data comparing two cars (both with plenum/TB/headers) but one has coated headers? Instead of losing power gains at 80 degrees F, can a car with coated headers maintain the same power at 85 degrees, 90 degrees, or even above?
Thanks for the reply. I think I should have been a bit more specific in what I was asking. BGB stated that in temps over 70-80 degrees the computer starts interfering with the performance gains of the modifications. That's the first time I've heard a specific ambient temperature quoted. What I was wondering was if there is any data comparing two cars (both with plenum/TB/headers) but one has coated headers? Instead of losing power gains at 80 degrees F, can a car with coated headers maintain the same power at 85 degrees, 90 degrees, or even above?
Maybe John can answer better that question. He does have a lot of logs from my car at ambient temps above 80 and 90 with ceramic coating on the headers but I never did a before and after dyno.
What he did find is that the timing gets pulled if any detonation happens, thus you loose power. At the temps we have down here we had to adjust timing so we could compensate for the higher IAT.
I did switch from Sport to Race headers (don't have coating on them now) and that really helped a lot......the cats are a real bottleneck and are the main cause of containing heat in the exhaust.
Thanks for the reply. I think I should have been a bit more specific in what I was asking. BGB stated that in temps over 70-80 degrees the computer starts interfering with the performance gains of the modifications. That's the first time I've heard a specific ambient temperature quoted. What I was wondering was if there is any data comparing two cars (both with plenum/TB/headers) but one has coated headers? Instead of losing power gains at 80 degrees F, can a car with coated headers maintain the same power at 85 degrees, 90 degrees, or even above?
While anything can be tested, it would be fairly hard to quantify and find a tipping point because of the amount of variables involved. I was just throwing out numbers because we were at the track last week and it never ceases to amaze me how warm the intake air temps get once the air enters the bodywork of the car and snakes its way into the engine. I don't think that's a hard number but if you had to bet on any figure, if your car is digesting 100F air, it's not going to make peak power.
At the end of the day you're limited by the temperature of the intake air and then the exhaust air. The hotter the intake air is, the hotter the exhaust air can get and then you can't run any more IGN timing to try and make additional power because it begins to knock and you have to dial it back. When we make some of these files for folks in the summer time, when we dyno in the winter time we can get more aggressive but we don't because we try and tune the cars for the worst possible scenarios which is summertime on the race track.
We used to coat our race headers because the cars were endurance raced for 3 + hours around tracks with a lot of wide open throttle. I think that folks are coating their manifolds to try and reduce the radiant heat that comes off of the manifold and soaks the engine bay as opposed to trying to be able to run more aggressive tuning. The coating is good for trying to help skyrocketing oil temps because the manifold gets awfully hot awfully fast when you're on track with the throttle pinned most of the time.
While anything can be tested, it would be fairly hard to quantify and find a tipping point because of the amount of variables involved. I was just throwing out numbers because we were at the track last week and it never ceases to amaze me how warm the intake air temps get once the air enters the bodywork of the car and snakes its way into the engine. I don't think that's a hard number but if you had to bet on any figure, if your car is digesting 100F air, it's not going to make peak power.
At the end of the day you're limited by the temperature of the intake air and then the exhaust air. The hotter the intake air is, the hotter the exhaust air can get and then you can't run any more IGN timing to try and make additional power because it begins to knock and you have to dial it back. When we make some of these files for folks in the summer time, when we dyno in the winter time we can get more aggressive but we don't because we try and tune the cars for the worst possible scenarios which is summertime on the race track.
We used to coat our race headers because the cars were endurance raced for 3 + hours around tracks with a lot of wide open throttle. I think that folks are coating their manifolds to try and reduce the radiant heat that comes off of the manifold and soaks the engine bay as opposed to trying to be able to run more aggressive tuning. The coating is good for trying to help skyrocketing oil temps because the manifold gets awfully hot awfully fast when you're on track with the throttle pinned most of the time.
For some anecdotal data points on temp rise through the intake tract, I monitored my 981 BS intake air temp with Cobb AP and compared it to the ambient temp reported by the car's display. When the engine is first started and at ambient temp (cold engine), of course the temps are very close, within 1 degree. But as the engine reaches full operating temp and all the parts in the engine bay including the intake air ducts and plenum area reach heat-soaked temp of the "underhood" area, I would see a range of 10 to 15 degrees temperature rise over ambient. If sitting in extended stop-n-go traffic, I saw over 15 degrees rise in intake air temp over ambient. I suppose some extensive insulating around the plastic ducts leading to the throttle valve would help, but the plenum itself would still warm the air a bit before it hits the intake valves. FWIW, I'm running Cargraphic Sport headers coated with Swain White Lightning.
so i sent my GT4 to BGB last week. John, Wray and the guys fit me into their busy race prep schedule and i got the car back on memorial day weekend. previously, i'd read every post i could find about Stage I and decided to go for it. i decided to go with the 'race' headers to maximize power gains.
my objectives were
- get more power without changing the 'character' of the car.
- make it a more special drive. the car was so technically competent but driving it was less of an experience than, say, my 997 GT3
- give me more reasons not to be tempted by the 718 GT4
after putting 400 miles on the thing, i can definitely say it's more special. not quite as loud all the time and as 'analog' as the 997 GT3, but it's a really great drive all the time now. before, it was quite tame on the street unless you really pushed it. today, it's a lot more fun even at 6/10ths. granted, a lot of this is the increased sound, which i'm very happy with.
we didn't dyno the car before and after, but i can feel a significant improvement in how it pulls over 4000. mission accomplished there too.
i'm not sure if i've successfully 'future proofed' the thing - who knows until i see the 718 - but i really like how it is now. the best analogy i can think of is that BGB's taken a fine blade that i'd been using for a while and somewhat gotten desensitized to, and sharpened the F out of it to make me appreciate it again/more.
In light of the rising cost of petroleum, my friend just wants to confirm that the 4.0L X51 kit still primarily runs on the tears of GT3 owners please respond
I saw.....and was chased down and passed by, and then tried to keep in sight of John's 4.0 X51 at COTA this weekend. Ridiculous...he was faster than pretty much everything on the track, including .2 GT3s. 100F+ ambient track temps
The yellow terror did show up. Cleaned the house and left. Savage
DC - it was great to finally meet you. Sorry your weekend was cut short by the 3rd gear failure! You looked good out there.
Originally Posted by ShakeNBake
I saw.....and was chased down and passed by, and then tried to keep in sight of John's 4.0 X51 at COTA this weekend. Ridiculous...he was faster than pretty much everything on the track, including .2 GT3s. 100F+ ambient track temps
😂😂 awesome feedback! Your marketing efforts are greatly appreciated. You were flying out there!
Originally Posted by evil panda
so i sent my GT4 to BGB last week. John, Wray and the guys fit me into their busy race prep schedule and i got the car back on memorial day weekend. previously, i'd read every post i could find about Stage I and decided to go for it. i decided to go with the 'race' headers to maximize power gains.
my objectives were
- get more power without changing the 'character' of the car.
- make it a more special drive. the car was so technically competent but driving it was less of an experience than, say, my 997 GT3
- give me more reasons not to be tempted by the 718 GT4
after putting 400 miles on the thing, i can definitely say it's more special. not quite as loud all the time and as 'analog' as the 997 GT3, but it's a really great drive all the time now. before, it was quite tame on the street unless you really pushed it. today, it's a lot more fun even at 6/10ths. granted, a lot of this is the increased sound, which i'm very happy with.
we didn't dyno the car before and after, but i can feel a significant improvement in how it pulls over 4000. mission accomplished there too.
i'm not sure if i've successfully 'future proofed' the thing - who knows until i see the 718 - but i really like how it is now. the best analogy i can think of is that BGB's taken a fine blade that i'd been using for a while and somewhat gotten desensitized to, and sharpened the F out of it to make me appreciate it again/more.
Thank you for the feedback and the awesome review. Your business is greatly appreciated!
Originally Posted by user1029
In light of the rising cost of petroleum, my friend just wants to confirm that the 4.0L X51 kit still primarily runs on the tears of GT3 owners please respond
ZO6 owners are also humbled! I need to post the video of the C7 Z06 owner that followed me to the garage to ask "how does this Cayman pill my car on the straights!??"
Last edited by BGB Motorsports; 06-07-2018 at 10:19 AM.
A few laps from this weekend's event. It was hot and the times aren't anything spectacular. The car is definitely capable of getting under a 2:20 with a real driver. I turned the power down substantially because I was concerned about the 100F + temps and the long straights but the Colonel ran like a top!
Holy Sh@$#!!!!!! NIce.....you are not making it easy for me to stop modding the GT4!
BTW...which tires were you using? How did they cope witht heat heat? Pretty similar to how we track the whole year down here.
04-23-2018, 09:11 PM
please respond
