718 GT4?
04-19-2018, 10:49 PM
#1216
I am. I am not trying local dealers for the GT3 because there's no way that would happen at this point. I am on a local list for the GT4. I know Jim Taggart of Taggart Autosport personally. If I want one, he will make it happen at a price that is good. I understand that at this point, there's no chance at getting one other than second hand/low miles which at this point is more than MSRP because hype and all that garbage. I was actually interested in one in IL but I'm not going to pull the trigger at this point. It was 15 over if I recall. maybe 20. In the 180s. Basically specced exactly like I would spec it minus just a couple of things. I'm confident that with patience, I can find one in a year if the GT4 turns out to not be NA and/or becomes unobtanium for some reason. The dealer I'm on the list for got 8 of the 981 and I'm in a good position assuming similar production numbers. I will say I am willing to pay over MSRP for the GT4 if necessary but that's just because this is THE car. With a kid on the way and things going to turbo, I don't want to miss out on this opportunity while I'm able. I'm confident I won't have to but you never know I suppose so i've prepared for it. I didn't get a GT350/R because dealers were trying to charge 5-15k over or 20-30 for the R. But this car is a lot different to me and 10k-15k is a small price to pay to be honest for what it is and my desire for it. A fool and his money and all that.
Last edited by blackholescion; 04-19-2018 at 11:04 PM.
04-19-2018, 11:15 PM
#1217
Rennlist Member
I have a GT4. It is awesome. The 718 GT4 will be even more awesome and probably na 4l. I will keep my 981 and it will still be awesome.
But the speculation is fun. More fun than talking about ADMs and allocations which will come soon enough. That won't be fun.
But the speculation is fun. More fun than talking about ADMs and allocations which will come soon enough. That won't be fun.
04-19-2018, 11:32 PM
#1218
Hope the next GT4 hits a home run for those racing in the GT4 classes and I'm sure it will regardless of the motor, just put the multi-link in the rear!
04-20-2018, 01:59 AM
#1219
Drifting
This thread reminds me a lot of the BMW M2 forum. A lot of the current owners did not/do not want the platform to progress to be a better driver's car (especially for a similar price tag that they paid):
At first, M2 owners were very skeptical to believe BMW would put the S55 ///M engine in the M2. Then when it was pretty obvious that it's happening, they insisted the price increase would be 10%++ - pricing is not officially confirmed, but based on preliminary pricing guide & BMW M CEO's interview the price increase will be modest. A lot of emotion after this info was released on that forum; 10 page+ threads with current owners trying to pick apart the 'flaws' in the new car. The current owners aggressively responded to insiders kindly providing info throughout the car's development, but in the end the insiders were vindicated.
Personally I'm glad that the new car is by objective (and probably subjective) measures better overall and with a very reasonable price increase. BMW will get awesome press for their new M2, and it's great for the community at large. IMO something similar will happen here.
At first, M2 owners were very skeptical to believe BMW would put the S55 ///M engine in the M2. Then when it was pretty obvious that it's happening, they insisted the price increase would be 10%++ - pricing is not officially confirmed, but based on preliminary pricing guide & BMW M CEO's interview the price increase will be modest. A lot of emotion after this info was released on that forum; 10 page+ threads with current owners trying to pick apart the 'flaws' in the new car. The current owners aggressively responded to insiders kindly providing info throughout the car's development, but in the end the insiders were vindicated.
Personally I'm glad that the new car is by objective (and probably subjective) measures better overall and with a very reasonable price increase. BMW will get awesome press for their new M2, and it's great for the community at large. IMO something similar will happen here.
04-20-2018, 03:59 AM
#1220
Rennlist Member
The videos of the car going through Brunnchen (by the spotter who made a separate topic) was well over 4K and at least close to WOT or it would not have been moving like that. In fact, it would need turbo torque to get from Brunnchen 1 to 2 that quick if it was doing low-ish revs. We also have a lot of sound clips of what slowly driven GT NA cars sound like, and they don't sound like that Spyder.
04-20-2018, 04:35 AM
#1221
Burning Brakes
Uh. I did. Although my point was disappointment that they haven't got rid of them yet...
04-20-2018, 05:31 AM
#1222
+1 H6 and 6-8% price increase probable. Probably will match the C2 like last gen: $~91k base price. History indicates this is where the GT4 fits into the Porsche hierarchy. That’s also ~$10k more than the GTS which matches the 981 as well.
04-20-2018, 05:41 AM
#1223
The videos of the car going through Brunnchen (by the spotter who made a separate topic) was well over 4K and at least close to WOT or it would not have been moving like that. In fact, it would need turbo torque to get from Brunnchen 1 to 2 that quick if it was doing low-ish revs. We also have a lot of sound clips of what slowly driven GT NA cars sound like, and they don't sound like that Spyder.
I still think it’s possible this is an extra muffled (at least for now) NA H6. The work to do this would be a lot less than substantial changes to the TT H6 to make it fit for a production 718. Not to mention heat management for club racing. Unless again the TT H6 is in Porsche’s plans for future models going forward.
04-20-2018, 05:56 AM
#1224
Instructor
An update on my earlier post on sound analysis..
QUOTE
Back on topic - an update on the analysis of the latest sound clips.
My friend's managed to have a look at some of the Instagram recordings and confirms that it is a 6-cylinder not a 4 and that it appears not to be turbocharged. Unfortunately I've not yet seen the data myself since he's now travelling to Scotland, but he's sending me some screenshots so that I can have a look at the results myself. However, I've every confidence in his opinion.
Now all we have to do is wait and see what actually materialises..!
END QUOTE
Hopefully correct but would need more samples and higher revs to be definitive.
QUOTE
Back on topic - an update on the analysis of the latest sound clips.
My friend's managed to have a look at some of the Instagram recordings and confirms that it is a 6-cylinder not a 4 and that it appears not to be turbocharged. Unfortunately I've not yet seen the data myself since he's now travelling to Scotland, but he's sending me some screenshots so that I can have a look at the results myself. However, I've every confidence in his opinion.
Now all we have to do is wait and see what actually materialises..!
END QUOTE
Hopefully correct but would need more samples and higher revs to be definitive.
04-20-2018, 06:05 AM
#1225
An update on my earlier post on sound analysis..
QUOTE
Back on topic - an update on the analysis of the latest sound clips.
My friend's managed to have a look at some of the Instagram recordings and confirms that it is a 6-cylinder not a 4 and that it appears not to be turbocharged. Unfortunately I've not yet seen the data myself since he's now travelling to Scotland, but he's sending me some screenshots so that I can have a look at the results myself. However, I've every confidence in his opinion.
Now all we have to do is wait and see what actually materialises..!
END QUOTE
Hopefully correct but would need more samples and higher revs to be definitive.
QUOTE
Back on topic - an update on the analysis of the latest sound clips.
My friend's managed to have a look at some of the Instagram recordings and confirms that it is a 6-cylinder not a 4 and that it appears not to be turbocharged. Unfortunately I've not yet seen the data myself since he's now travelling to Scotland, but he's sending me some screenshots so that I can have a look at the results myself. However, I've every confidence in his opinion.
Now all we have to do is wait and see what actually materialises..!
END QUOTE
Hopefully correct but would need more samples and higher revs to be definitive.
For everyone in this thread, this is the fellow who was able to determine the Autobahn spot of the Spyder was an H6 BEFORE the Nurburgring clips, when most thought it was a 4-cylinder
04-20-2018, 07:03 AM
#1226
Rennlist Member
Thanks for confirming. I had suspected they had to homologate but I wasn't sure how strict GT4 is. It makes sense that they have to homologate since GT4 keeps things close to the street car.
I am. I am not trying local dealers for the GT3 because there's no way that would happen at this point. I am on a local list for the GT4. I know Jim Taggart of Taggart Autosport personally. If I want one, he will make it happen at a price that is good. I understand that at this point, there's no chance at getting one other than second hand/low miles which at this point is more than MSRP because hype and all that garbage. I was actually interested in one in IL but I'm not going to pull the trigger at this point. It was 15 over if I recall. maybe 20. In the 180s. Basically specced exactly like I would spec it minus just a couple of things. I'm confident that with patience, I can find one in a year if the GT4 turns out to not be NA and/or becomes unobtanium for some reason. The dealer I'm on the list for got 8 of the 981 and I'm in a good position assuming similar production numbers. I will say I am willing to pay over MSRP for the GT4 if necessary but that's just because this is THE car. With a kid on the way and things going to turbo, I don't want to miss out on this opportunity while I'm able. I'm confident I won't have to but you never know I suppose so i've prepared for it. I didn't get a GT350/R because dealers were trying to charge 5-15k over or 20-30 for the R. But this car is a lot different to me and 10k-15k is a small price to pay to be honest for what it is and my desire for it. A fool and his money and all that.
I am. I am not trying local dealers for the GT3 because there's no way that would happen at this point. I am on a local list for the GT4. I know Jim Taggart of Taggart Autosport personally. If I want one, he will make it happen at a price that is good. I understand that at this point, there's no chance at getting one other than second hand/low miles which at this point is more than MSRP because hype and all that garbage. I was actually interested in one in IL but I'm not going to pull the trigger at this point. It was 15 over if I recall. maybe 20. In the 180s. Basically specced exactly like I would spec it minus just a couple of things. I'm confident that with patience, I can find one in a year if the GT4 turns out to not be NA and/or becomes unobtanium for some reason. The dealer I'm on the list for got 8 of the 981 and I'm in a good position assuming similar production numbers. I will say I am willing to pay over MSRP for the GT4 if necessary but that's just because this is THE car. With a kid on the way and things going to turbo, I don't want to miss out on this opportunity while I'm able. I'm confident I won't have to but you never know I suppose so i've prepared for it. I didn't get a GT350/R because dealers were trying to charge 5-15k over or 20-30 for the R. But this car is a lot different to me and 10k-15k is a small price to pay to be honest for what it is and my desire for it. A fool and his money and all that.
Last edited by Five12Free; 04-20-2018 at 08:19 AM.
04-20-2018, 09:18 AM
#1227
100% agree. The dealer I'm at locally, I'm in the top half on the list of those 8 allocations (for the 981). It's also where I bought my M2 (their sister dealership). They are an MSRP dealer and I don't expect to be bumped for various reasons. Like I said, if push comes to shove, I'll look at an ADM even though I obviously don't want to do that. I suppose I should get on a couple more lists but dealers usually favor in state/local buyers so it seems like a waste of everyone's time and free loan money. Might make a few calls soon to some Midwest dealers.
04-20-2018, 09:24 AM
#1228
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+1 H6 and 6-8% price increase probable. Probably will match the C2 like last gen: $~91k base price. History indicates this is where the GT4 fits into the Porsche hierarchy. That’s also ~$10k more than the GTS which matches the 981 as well.
04-20-2018, 10:04 AM
#1229
If Porsche finally fit a NA H6 in the next GT4/ Spyder generation, the price increase compared to the 981 will probably be more significant than that. More realistically, one should expect a list price of c. $110 /120 k. Porsche know these cars will sell anyway (I'd say almost regardless of the price), and they'll have to take into account the cost of the 4.0 NA engine & the investments required to detune it. In matter of performances, these cars will be close to the 991.2 GTS ones, so, in Porsche's logic, the price should be closer too... In addition, if Porsche follow the strategy set for the 718 range, the Spyder will be more expensive than the GT4 this time (but with the same power / specs).
04-20-2018, 11:43 AM
#1230
Rennlist Member
If this is true how do you believe the intercooler(s) and turbos are mounted? I don’t see any outlets on the bumper for the intercoolers and from my understanding they would need to re-work the turbos’ location. This would only be worth it if they are planning to abandon the pretty much brand new H4 at least partially for future Boxster/Cayman models.
It would have to use an air to water intercooler like the 718 uses now, that's the only option. I don't know where they would put the turbos but that is something that is never going to be impossible but rather a matter of how much effort and money they assign to this issue.
Why would they do that when they already have a turbo engine they could use (the 4 pot) or the NA 6 which we were all expecting? I have no answer for that, but I could think of possible reasons. Like their understanding that if they want to raise the Spyder and GT4 over the numerous versions of the 718 they already have, it needs to be an H6. And maybe they really don't have an NA engine yet that they can use due to new emission regs. Again I don't want to read too much into Preuninger's words and intonation (he can say whatever, anyway) but I did not get the impression that the work related to getting the NA engine compliant with emission regs was going to be completed very soon. If they want to launch these cars this year still, they might simply not have anything else available than the 3.0TT that (kind of) ticks the necessary boxes.
With the 981s it was "easy" in that they could just put the 3.8L engine in there which automatically put them on another level to the regular cars. It's not quite as simple this time around. But either way whatever engine the Spyder/GT4 use will have no meaning for the next gen engine for the regular models. They will stay 4 cyl, go hybrid, or be discontinued altogether in the future.