718 GT4?
07-27-2018, 02:35 AM
#2776
07-27-2018, 03:16 AM
#2777
Rennlist Member
Don't feel bad for me. 
It happens when information are compartmentalized. Certain section on get certain information and have to guess the rest of the picture. Even Lars Kern, who drove the record lap at the Ring with the GT2RS was fed different information than the rest of the crew. He believed he was on Cup Rs when he was still on Cup 2s.
The development guys have said the bigger motor's extra torque will help with the anemic 2nd gear when I discuss the gearing option back then. X51 pushed the torque peak further up the rev range and won't help the car coming out of corners.
Tom probably knows something I don't, as I haven't been keeping up with the GT4, I was racing for Porsche in Europe lately in a Cup car and was talking Cup car with them. The Cup car will stay the same through 2020, then the 992 version will take over. There are something else in the works that won't make PCA club racing happy either if the proper guys gets their wishes. Trophy East is a mess in the eyes of Germany and they want to clean it up, and something else that might take the place of Trophy East and West. In the grand scheme of things it is indeed better and more structured but there will always be unhappy people regarding any decisions.
As a side note, I have been pushing them to do the GT4RS, I want one over the GT3RS. But that's the one thing they dreaded.
It happens when information are compartmentalized. Certain section on get certain information and have to guess the rest of the picture. Even Lars Kern, who drove the record lap at the Ring with the GT2RS was fed different information than the rest of the crew. He believed he was on Cup Rs when he was still on Cup 2s. The development guys have said the bigger motor's extra torque will help with the anemic 2nd gear when I discuss the gearing option back then. X51 pushed the torque peak further up the rev range and won't help the car coming out of corners.
Tom probably knows something I don't, as I haven't been keeping up with the GT4, I was racing for Porsche in Europe lately in a Cup car and was talking Cup car with them. The Cup car will stay the same through 2020, then the 992 version will take over. There are something else in the works that won't make PCA club racing happy either if the proper guys gets their wishes. Trophy East is a mess in the eyes of Germany and they want to clean it up, and something else that might take the place of Trophy East and West. In the grand scheme of things it is indeed better and more structured but there will always be unhappy people regarding any decisions.
As a side note, I have been pushing them to do the GT4RS, I want one over the GT3RS. But that's the one thing they dreaded.
07-27-2018, 03:42 AM
#2778
Rennlist Member
And a number of other corners...there was a few seconds left on the table that lap with several moments due to over-optimistic entry speeds.
07-27-2018, 07:19 AM
#2779
We must all keep nagging our dealers for it and ask them to press Porsche HQ.
07-27-2018, 07:22 AM
#2780
If Porsche deliver the car like that its purely a sales pitch car, a truly cynical marketing exercise "look the new GT4 has a 50HP increase over the old model" - it will be a very hard sell - certainly won't work for me. (The 9A1 stroked to 4 with X51 is a different proposition as it adds torque across the curve and thus increased power across the whole curve - and makes sense with the current gearing).
Sorry to say the 3.8 9A1 wasn't great in a 991 in any form in 2015 and will be far less so in a GT4 in 2019 (unless substantially modified to allow for a higher compression ratio or more capacity along with x51 type lungs).
In my mind, this GT4 was going to be the real deal GT car as opposed to the previous toe in the water tester. Going forward a warmed over 3.8l manual won't cut it for my needs.
Consider this, a 718GTS with Cobb stage 1 tune makes about 430HP and 480Nm of torque.
Last edited by groundhog; 07-27-2018 at 08:15 AM.
07-27-2018, 09:10 AM
#2781
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Tom probably knows something I don't, as I haven't been keeping up with the GT4, I was racing for Porsche in Europe lately in a Cup car and was talking Cup car with them. The Cup car will stay the same through 2020, then the 992 version will take over. There are something else in the works that won't make PCA club racing happy either if the proper guys gets their wishes. Trophy East is a mess in the eyes of Germany and they want to clean it up, and something else that might take the place of Trophy East and West. In the grand scheme of things it is indeed better and more structured but there will always be unhappy people regarding any decisions.
As a side note, I have been pushing them to do the GT4RS, I want one over the GT3RS. But that's the one thing they dreaded.
There is alot of super tech mumbo jumbo with the next GT4 motor that is still unknown and over my comprehension.
The 992 Cup is on my wish list for 2021. Very excited to see if it finally comes standard with ABS or not. I will be on Whoopsy like a wet towel for info on that car!
Whoopsy, that cup program you are running in germany is a first class show. Is there any talks of it coming to north america or perhaps a GT4 version? Is there any talks of an offical Porsche air cooled series for north america? I have only heard rumors to date.
The GT4 series in north america was learning experience for the first two years with Porsche. It was successful however the availability of cars hurt the series in the third year. Trophy West managed to keep a decent car count. Trophy East once out of contract with Porsche, allowed any and all clubsports to run in any configuration hence we have “outlaw” clubsports running around in PCA. A hot mess but super fun!
I think with the new flow of cars, trophy west and PCA could put together a new trophy series with just “trophy” cars. Time will tell.
Porsche will be offering 3 configurations of the race car for customers for this concept. Basically Club (for private track or lapping customers) trophy (for spec racing) and SRO (for GT4 worldwide).
If the GT4 is not a 4.0L, then that might leave room for a possible future GT4 RS with a 4.0L as the final goodbye to the 718 platform.
Last edited by tcsracing1; 07-27-2018 at 10:00 AM.
07-27-2018, 09:16 AM
#2782
I typically know less then Whoopsy. He is well known at the cracker factory whereas I rely on cleaning lady talk outside of Flaut.
There is alot of super tech mumbo jumbo with the next GT4 motor that is still unknown and over my comprehension.
The 992 Cup is on my wish list for 2021. Very excited to see if it finally comes standard with ABS or not. I will be on Whoopsy like a wet towel for info on that car!
Whoopsy, that cup program you are on in germany is a first class show. Is there any talks or it coming to north america or perhaps a GT4 version? Is there any talks of an offical Porsche air cooled series for north america? I have only heard rumors to date.
The GT4 series in north america was learning experience for the first two years with Porsche. It was successful however the availability of cars hurt the series in the third year. Trophy West managed to keep a decent car count. Trophy East once out of contract with Porsche, allowed any and all clubsports to run in any configuration hence we have “outlaw” clubsports running around in PCA. A hot mess.
I think with the new flow of cars, trophy west and PCA could put together a new trophy series with just “trophy” cars. Time will tell.
Porsche will be offering 3 configurations of the race car for customers for this concept. Basically Club (for privateers) trophy (for spec racing) and SRO (for GT4 worldwide).
If the GT4 is not a 4.0L, then that might leave room for a possible future GT4 RS with a 4.0L as the final goodbye to the 718 platform.
I think Porsche need to get this right - I know many that are active in motorsport that do not want a clubsport type package - in fact you can't enter a club sport in many race series because it was never a road legal car. Frankly Porsche needs to listen to a broader range of customers involved in motorsport.
07-27-2018, 10:54 AM
#2783
Rennlist Member
I typically know less then Whoopsy. He is well known at the cracker factory whereas I rely on cleaning lady talk outside of Flacht.
There is alot of super tech mumbo jumbo with the next GT4 motor that is still unknown and over my comprehension.
The 992 Cup is on my wish list for 2021. Very excited to see if it finally comes standard with ABS or not. I will be on Whoopsy like a wet towel for info on that car!
Whoopsy, that cup program you are running in germany is a first class show. Is there any talks of it coming to north america or perhaps a GT4 version? Is there any talks of an offical Porsche air cooled series for north america? I have only heard rumors to date.
The GT4 series in north america was learning experience for the first two years with Porsche. It was successful however the availability of cars hurt the series in the third year. Trophy West managed to keep a decent car count. Trophy East once out of contract with Porsche, allowed any and all clubsports to run in any configuration hence we have “outlaw” clubsports running around in PCA. A hot mess but super fun!
I think with the new flow of cars, trophy west and PCA could put together a new trophy series with just “trophy” cars. Time will tell.
Porsche will be offering 3 configurations of the race car for customers for this concept. Basically Club (for private track or lapping customers) trophy (for spec racing) and SRO (for GT4 worldwide).
If the GT4 is not a 4.0L, then that might leave room for a possible future GT4 RS with a 4.0L as the final goodbye to the 718 platform.
The ABS system will depends on the race series for the Cup car, just like the current car. One can have ABS fitted after the fact. Btw I had never seen so many Cup cars before in one place, Manthey had over 100 of them when I was there, all 2019s. They are responsible for finishing them after getting delivered from Zuffenhausen.
There were people from PCNA and Porsche Canada on hand at Nurburgring to witness the racing program first hand. They were here for a meeting to see how and where they can bring the program over the pond. It would seems if they do do it, it will be a combined effort for North America. If they couldn't find a suitable race series to do Level 2, they might start one up. But it will only be for Cup cars. One make GT4 series will still be PCA's domain. Race team availability is also an issue, in Europe, Manthey is the default go to as a factory team, but in North America the racing arm PMNA doesn't run their own race team as of now, that might need to change..........
With their change in PR agency last year, they wanted to bring the world wide race series under one uniformed naming convention. As of right now, some countries have the Sport Cup while others don't, North American have the GT3 Cup and the rest of the world have Carrera Cup, Super Cup, it's confusing for 'viewers' to see the hierarchy. They are determined to change that.
07-27-2018, 11:06 AM
#2784
Rennlist Member
There is a whole world outside the US - GT4s are raced around the world in a whole range of configurations, I suspect the vast majority of customers were looking for a "real" GT car this time.
I think Porsche need to get this right - I know many that are active in motorsport that do not want a clubsport type package - in fact you can't enter a club sport in many race series because it was never a road legal car. Frankly Porsche needs to listen to a broader range of customers involved in motorsport.
I think Porsche need to get this right - I know many that are active in motorsport that do not want a clubsport type package - in fact you can't enter a club sport in many race series because it was never a road legal car. Frankly Porsche needs to listen to a broader range of customers involved in motorsport.
And Porsche did listen to the racing community, hence why the ClubSport is not a hack job package but a complete race car. SRO heard of the concept and built a whole race series out of it. It is Porsche's entry level race car, slotted below the Cup car, which everyone wanted. It cost a lot less to maintain and run a ClubSport than a Cup car. (But certain manufacturers violated that spirit of rule in the series and enter detuned GT3 cars into the GT4 series and raised the cost substantially)
What you are looking for is another car that's below the ClubSport level, something that's not even a race car dude, you are looking for a street car conversion to race car. Very different thing.
While the original GT4 ClubSport looks like a street GT4, under the skin it is quite different. For example, the whole front clip is from the Cup car, with the Cup car suspension bits.
07-27-2018, 11:08 AM
#2785
With their change in PR agency last year, they wanted to bring the world wide race series under one uniformed naming convention. As of right now, some countries have the Sport Cup while others don't, North American have the GT3 Cup and the rest of the world have Carrera Cup, Super Cup, it's confusing for 'viewers' to see the hierarchy. They are determined to change that.
You can go to a ring closed session and see 100 GT3s/RS running round - but its illusory.
If Porsche really want to succeed they have to provide base vehicles that can compete at club, state and national level. Thats means GT4s and GT3s that get the job done and have been road registered. Thats the market, not Cup cars or track only specials. They have to feed the roots................
and I'm looking for a car that meets most regs in motorsport e.g. it was available as a road registered vehicle, not something below a CS - (there are far better than that around - try a Lotus 430 Cup - it flays the current CS).Perhaps Porsche are trying, but by the same token perhaps they're not asking the right questions. Perhaps my expectations are to high.
Last edited by groundhog; 07-27-2018 at 11:41 AM.
07-27-2018, 11:27 AM
#2786
Instructor
07-27-2018, 11:45 AM
#2787
Rennlist Member
Whoopsy, its a mistake to mix confusion with being interested - your average Joe would rather watch Camaros, Stangs and Vettes fighting it out (irrespective if they are fully fledged space frame cars). They are not interested in Challenge series, cup GT3, GT4 etc - the current cup seris over here has 25 new 991 Cups running round - no one cares or watches. There have been many touring car championships - single model championships and non of them do particularly well.
You can go to a ring closed session and see 100 GT3s/RS running round - but its illusory.
If Porsche really want to succeed they have to provide base vehicles that can compete at club, state and national level. Thats means GT4s and GT3s that get the job done and have been road registered. Thats the market, not Cup cars or track only specials. They have to feed the roots................
I know and I'm looking for a car that meets most regs in motorsport e.g. it was available as a road registered vehicle, not something below a CS - (there are far better than that around - try a Lotus 430 Cup - it flays the current CS).
Perhaps Porsche are trying, but by the same token perhaps they're not asking the right questions. Perhaps my expectations are to high.
You can go to a ring closed session and see 100 GT3s/RS running round - but its illusory.
If Porsche really want to succeed they have to provide base vehicles that can compete at club, state and national level. Thats means GT4s and GT3s that get the job done and have been road registered. Thats the market, not Cup cars or track only specials. They have to feed the roots................
I know
and I'm looking for a car that meets most regs in motorsport e.g. it was available as a road registered vehicle, not something below a CS - (there are far better than that around - try a Lotus 430 Cup - it flays the current CS).Perhaps Porsche are trying, but by the same token perhaps they're not asking the right questions. Perhaps my expectations are to high.
What you need is to write to your congressman and petition and change the DoT law regarding unbelted occupants inside a car hitting a hard surface. That's the reason why no factory cage can be had on this side of the pond. Porsche refused to do the Mickey Mouse padding job BMW did with the M4GTS.
Change that law and cars on our side of the pond can be ordered with the factory cages and then you have your car. Street car that has roll cages and can be raced.
Porsche's hands are tied until this law is changed.
07-27-2018, 12:09 PM
#2788
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There is a whole world outside the US - GT4s are raced around the world in a whole range of configurations, I suspect the vast majority of customers were looking for a "real" GT car this time.
I think Porsche need to get this right - I know many that are active in motorsport that do not want a clubsport type package - in fact you can't enter a club sport in many race series because it was never a road legal car. Frankly Porsche needs to listen to a broader range of customers involved in motorsport.
I think Porsche need to get this right - I know many that are active in motorsport that do not want a clubsport type package - in fact you can't enter a club sport in many race series because it was never a road legal car. Frankly Porsche needs to listen to a broader range of customers involved in motorsport.
High level Racing world wide is turning to factory built race cars as manufactures such as Porsche are specifically developing cars for that customer base.
Street legal cars being converted to race cars are more grassroots club level now. Typically the donors for those racers are bought second hand? If there are series that actually require new street title cars, it is not something Porsche or other manufactures would really be interested in as it is a lower level racing.
I know Targa events require street title cars and the “clubsport” over the counter bolt-in roll cage system work well for that niche market. I have one in my RS for tarmac rallies and it is a nice system.
Porsche sold approx 420 clubsports and will most likely double that on the next run. Cup car and R model orders are also healthy thus it would appear to me that perhaps Porsche Motorsports have their focus in the right place listening to what their customer needs are.
07-27-2018, 12:11 PM
#2789
07-27-2018, 12:29 PM
#2790
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Porsches answer to this is simply “no soup for you” north america.....