GRR - CEL Code @ 654 miles on new '21 Cayenne
#241
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FWIW the car was drawing ~30.7 amps out of my 240v. That puts it ~7.3kWh. Not sure if that is putting too much load on the 7.2kWh onboard charger and causing the issue. The 240 and mobile connect setup is for my Taycan.
I will also add I walked in on the car's blower fan running at max capacity when charging. Definitely trying to cool the battery down.
I will also add I walked in on the car's blower fan running at max capacity when charging. Definitely trying to cool the battery down.
you come to my home in Santa Cruz and plug you '21 Cayenne into my 100 amp EV Charger (19.2 kW of power) the Cayenne will only pull/use/consume 7.2'ish kW - because even though the EVSE can provide 19.2 kW - the Cayenne's on board charger can only handle the current flow of 7.2 kW and therefore that's all it will ever consume (module voltage flux and slight more/less power depending on current AC power conditions).
all EV's/hybrids will only "pull" the amount of current they can handle - you can not force more power into the battery than the on-board-in-vehicle-charger can accept…
https://rennlist.com/forums/taycan/1...-charging.html
this thread is a detailed topic on all the in's/out's on EV chargers - read it some night when you're having trouble falling asleep…it will solve your insomnia…
my "core rant" on this subject is the external charger in North America for any EV/Hybrid is not something that "charges battery" - common mis-conception - it's simple an external power switch that the vehicle can turn on or off - seriously it just lets AC power flow or not flow - NOTHING MORE - it's core design goal is safety - DO NOT LET POWER FLOW UNLESS CONNECTED TO A VEHICLE - the power cord to the vehicle has no power flowing when it's not plugged in for safety (drop it in a puddle when raining outside will not kill you!)
the charger that comes with the Cayenne is the same one that comes with the Taycan - 40 amps - 240 volts - and is called an EVSE (Electrical Vehicle Supply Equipment) - it DOES NOT CHARGE THE BATTERY - it simply provides a flow of AC Power - it has TWO FUNCTIONS
- power flow is remotely controlled by the vehicle's onboard charger - no power can flow when not plugged into a vehicle
- the vehicle has to send a "signal" to the EVSE to turn the power flow on
- if the connection is broken power flow stops immediately - it's like a dead-mans switch - power can not flow in the absence of a positive control "circuit" with a clear/clean signal - any loss of signal or connection will cause the raw AC power flow to STOP - it's a fail safe mechanism and brutally simple.
- reports to the vehicle's onboard charger how much power it can currently provide so the vehicle won't pull 'too much' for the current circuit breaker
#2 is also why you can go to Valley Fair mall in San Jose, CA and use the ChargePoint chargers on level 2 of the parking garage from ChargePoint and the car will only charge at 6 kW (208v @ 30 amps) instead of it's maximum rate of 7.2 kW - because the ChargePoint EVSE's in the parking garage "tell" the Cayenne's onboard charger they only provide 30 amps - so the Cayenne dutifully only "pulls" 30 amps…cause that's what the EVSE told the vehicle it could handle.
the charging of the battery is taken care of by the onboard charger inside the car which does the AC/DC conversion and filters/modifies the power flow to suite the battery's unique needs and current situation…any sophisticated power management or flow control or modification of the power to the battery is done by the on-board in vehicle charger controlled by the BMS (Battery Management Software) - the charging of the battery is handled entirely 100% by Vehicle hardware and software - the external "charger" (a misnomer) is actually just a raw power supply for AC power…the raw AC power supply is "tapped" by the on-board vehicle charger and power flow to the battery is 100% controlled/modulated by the vehicle charging hardware and software controls provided by the vehicle's manufacturer…the external power source is entirely dumb…
the external EVSE is actually a pretty dumb on/off switch with some additional meta-data to tell the vehicle how much power it can provide - beyond that is' really a glorified extension cord with zero smarts about charging _ANYTHING_
this is why the EVSE for your Cayenne will also charge your Taycan, and your Volt, and Bolt, and your ID.4, 918 Spyder, BMW i3, Ford Mach-E, Tesla, Rav4 EV, and you Leaf, and your Prius Hybrid - cause it's not a charger - it's a power supply - and all it does is let raw AC power flow or not under the vehicle's command - it doesn't even know what type of vehicle it's talking to.
over time these will become like the USB charger we all no longer need because we all have many many USB chargers that plug into a Wall socket and provide USB power to charger all our devices…
I foresee a day where EV's will not longer come with a EVSE by default - because once you have one EVSE - it will also work for your next Hybrid or Full-EV - how many do you need?
Last edited by daveo4porsche; 10-08-2021 at 05:43 PM.
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#242
Drifting
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NO let's not - it's not that it's not perfect - it throwing a code which requires me to take to the dealer every time it appears - the manual recommends a dealer visit for diagnostics if a check engine light appears - you fail to grok that you CAN NOT SELL THE VEHICLE IN THIS STATE WITH A UN RESOLVED CHECK ENGINE LIGHT. Also the check engine light can denote problems that will damage the vehicle or it is in a state that is unsafe to drive. There is no way to know what type of problem you are experiencing without a diagnostic. If you call Porsche road side assistance they will recommend you NOT DRIVE THE VEHICLE while a CEL is showing - and will dispatch a tow truck.
It's a serious problem, it is unacceptable and you are simply wrong if you feel it's ok.
Porsche itself considers the vehicle "undriveable" with an undiagnosed CEL. Once it's diagnosed only then can you determine if the vehicle is safe to drive. But that requires a dealer visit for each CEL.
You are simply wrong - plain and simple.
It's a serious problem, it is unacceptable and you are simply wrong if you feel it's ok.
Porsche itself considers the vehicle "undriveable" with an undiagnosed CEL. Once it's diagnosed only then can you determine if the vehicle is safe to drive. But that requires a dealer visit for each CEL.
You are simply wrong - plain and simple.
Last edited by kayjh; 10-08-2021 at 07:41 PM.
#243
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Give it back to them and buy a Mercedes. I think if Porsche through it's dealer says you can drive it, then you can drive it. If you want to sell it on the open market, that is another story, but it seems you like the suv, but are bothered by the light. It is a simple problem caused by a software bug. It doesn't affect the engine and you can drive it anywhere you want. You have blown this up so large you can no longer see past it.
#244
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I think you should speak to an attorney. What do you think different will happen next month or the month after? What do you think will change?
There could be another CEL code that your car throws (faulty O2 sensor and car starts leaning the A/F ratio) that you can ignore by accident that can hurt the engine if left unchecked. I wouldnt drive an SUV that sees daily use with a CEL for months.
There could be another CEL code that your car throws (faulty O2 sensor and car starts leaning the A/F ratio) that you can ignore by accident that can hurt the engine if left unchecked. I wouldnt drive an SUV that sees daily use with a CEL for months.
#245
Track Day
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Just checking in here on my 2021 E-Hybrid. We're at 3000 miles now, about 2700mi of that with the CEL on the dash. Dealer says they cant do anything unless the CEL is on when we bring it in, and both times we went in the CEL turned off the day before. Murphys law right?
Still no power steering wheel adjuster computers available so its still weird when I want to drive the car using my wifes steering wheel position.
Infotainment system is so far behind, bluetooth seems flakey, still defaults to fm radio about 50% of the time we get in. Nav doesn't show traffic 20% of the time. Searching for POI's on the nav is horrible. Getting apple car play to boot up every time hasn't been reliable. To switch between the 2 active drivers we have sometimes I get in the car and just get the spinning "wait" symbol on the screen saying its initializing software. Sigh... Better than my Ferrari's infotainment (what isnt??) but a joke compared to the Tesla.
I could see buying a 911 turbo, a targa, a taycan...but for an every day normal person car like a Cayenne I expect the little things to just work. My wife is pissed I talked her into this car thus far.
Dealer doesn't seem to care about us driving around with a CEL.
Jon
Still no power steering wheel adjuster computers available so its still weird when I want to drive the car using my wifes steering wheel position.
Infotainment system is so far behind, bluetooth seems flakey, still defaults to fm radio about 50% of the time we get in. Nav doesn't show traffic 20% of the time. Searching for POI's on the nav is horrible. Getting apple car play to boot up every time hasn't been reliable. To switch between the 2 active drivers we have sometimes I get in the car and just get the spinning "wait" symbol on the screen saying its initializing software. Sigh... Better than my Ferrari's infotainment (what isnt??) but a joke compared to the Tesla.
I could see buying a 911 turbo, a targa, a taycan...but for an every day normal person car like a Cayenne I expect the little things to just work. My wife is pissed I talked her into this car thus far.
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Jon
#246
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I lemoned my '21 eHybrid and Porsche bought it back last week. Yeah it would've been great had this vehicle not have this issue, but it did and it bothered both my wife and me. We lost confidence in it so decided to moved on. Porsche was very nice about it and I respect that and I am still looking forward to receiving my 992 S, which is at the port in Germany right now. Just wanted to share my personal experience....
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#247
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Any updates? My 20 turbo SE is in same boat re CEL. I’ve been doing some experimenting with driving conditions to reproduce the CEL (or not). My CEL would kick on (still randomly) when I’m in hybrid mode at or above 55 mph. I was continuing to charge overnight during the thrown CEL. I would start out in hybrid from home and proceed to interstate or state road where speed limits are greater than in town. Anyone comment on what mode they are in and speed/conditions when CEL appears? I haven’t tried the incline as previously reported.
What I’ve found that works (going on a month without CEL). I haven’t plugged in for any charging(I know defeats the purpose of hybrid). I start out in sport after ignition. Drive about 20 minute commute and then use hybrid in town/low speeds. Return to sport for parking purposes.
I’m curious to know if any others who actually have the ehybrid with CEL have found any work arounds or what modes trigger the CEL. I’m not looking for a debate from non ehybrid owners about other subjects in this thread. Thanks
What I’ve found that works (going on a month without CEL). I haven’t plugged in for any charging(I know defeats the purpose of hybrid). I start out in sport after ignition. Drive about 20 minute commute and then use hybrid in town/low speeds. Return to sport for parking purposes.
I’m curious to know if any others who actually have the ehybrid with CEL have found any work arounds or what modes trigger the CEL. I’m not looking for a debate from non ehybrid owners about other subjects in this thread. Thanks
#248
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I wonder if this is fixed for MY22?
#249
#250
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Here is my update. Porsche Customer Service NA reached out and we agreed to an offer that "makes right" the quality issue up to this point. Still no fix and the dealer can't even clear my CEL, but I was told they continue to work the fix for these cars. So for now, I drive a new car with a CEL, but at least I felt Porsche did the right thing. It also doesn't preclude me from exercising the Lemon option in my state.
#252
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#254
Racer
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