Archimedes

Thinking about a Taycan again and my head is swimming with all the charging lingo. Hoping someone can simplify it for my little ant brain.

What do I need to get level 2 charging at home? An EVSE on a 220 line with 50 amps? Does Porsche sell the equipment that would mount on my wall? Can it be mounted on an outside wall or does it need to be in the garage?

daveo4porsche

yes most EVSE’s can be used outside - but better inside

this posting has been well recieved - but it’s a bit thorough

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/th...-….2343/

daveo4porsche

Taycan comes with a Level 2 EVSE (Electrical vehicle supply equipment) - it is a Level 2 charger and will work with 240 volt plugs - you can specify one of 4 plugs for north america

NEMA 14-50 - 50 amp breaker and wire
NEMA 6-50 - 50 amp breaker and wire
NEMA 14-30 - 30 amp breaker and wire (modern water heater/dryer plug)
NEMA 6-30 - 30 amp breaker and wire

50 amps will charge the car faster than 30 amps
NEMA 14-50 is what it comes with unless you specify differently

NEMA 14-50 is the best choice and most useful for home and travel (you can take the charger with you for charging on the road and NEMA 14-50 plugs are the most common 50 amp plug you’ll encounter in the wild)

the include EVSE Porsche charger (PMC+) comes with a basic mount - it’s best to mount it inside - I do not believe it’s water proof but is water resistance - you can consult porsche’s documentation for further details on outdoor use
porsche sells an overprice and mostly too big “dock” for outside usage - $470 option

the Porsche charger also comes with a plug adapter for household outlet (NEMA 5-15) but that is painful slow for charging the Taycan but it can work in a pinch and is better than nothing

all EVSE are safe to use outside - part of the North American EV charging standard J-1772 makes them safe for outdoor use

it’s worth investing a nice home charging setup since this is your first EV not your last and it’s not vendor specific - so if you think ahead an little bit you’ll use this setup for your Taycan and your future EV’s so a little extra time and money means you’ll have the electrician visit only once vs. having them do it again in the future.

I hope this helps a bit and gets you a bit further down the road on your EV travels.

daveo4porsche

the 25ft cable option is very useful for charging and is a $0 option when you order the Taycan - it’s much more money if you want to order/swap it later…

update 7/22
the above statment is almost true- the standard charger that comes with Taycan is the PMC+ (not the PMCC) - if you check the $0 25 ft cable box then you also MUST purchase the $1020 PMCC - so it’s really not a $0 option - the PMC+ comes with a 15 ft cable - I prefer a 25ft - and for $1020 there are better, more flexible, smaller, lighter mobile chargers vs the PMCC - I’m not a fan of the PMCC as it’s the most expensive EVSE on the market and far from the best IMHO - plenty of 3rd party mobile EVSE’s for way way way less money than $1020 w/25 ft cables and wider range of NEMA plugs available for EV road warrior duty.

also any J-1772 EVSE will charge the Taycan - you do not have to use the Porsche charger - all EV chargers sold in north america will charge any other north american EV - so you are not locked into a Porsche charger -but one is included with the vehicle so there is little reason if any to get a non-Porsche charger (since one is included with the vehicle).

so your only choice is really:

what NEMA plug do I want? (answer most likley 90% of the time NEMA 14-50 unless you have some reason to get another plug specifically)
where will I mount in the garage?

there are reasons to get a charger other than the Porsche charger, but I’ll let all this settle in before we go there.

happy to answer any questions.

daveo4porsche

my break down of home charging setups are:

• adequate: 30 amp breaker home charging setup - 24 amp charging capacity - this is your 240 volt electric dryer/water-heater circuit - but it good enough most of the time - since the car charges overnight it doesn't really matter if it take 6 hours or 4 hours - if it's all done by the time you wake up in the morning.
• adequate.1: 40 amp breaker - 32 amp charging rate - any 32 amp (40 amp breaker) EVSE sold for less than $500 by most any vendor - ChargePoint makes a good one with good features - most of these are hard wired, but some are plug based (NEMA 14-50 or 6-50 plug types)
• Good: NEMA 14-50 or 6-50 or hardwired 50 amp EVSE - 40 amp charging rate - this is the Porsche Charger (PMC+ or PMCC in North America) - 9.6 kW charging rate - good overnight charging capacity for extended daily driving
• Better: 60 amp breaker - must be hardwired (no 60 amp plugs in North America - hardwired only due to building codes) - this will maximize your Taycan's charging rate (11 kW) and is quite a bit faster than 30 amps or 50 amps- ClipperCreek HCS-60 EVSE is an excellent, reliable and high-quality charging choice - but is hardwired and therefore not mobile to take with you on the road.
• Best: add a 100/125 amp breaker to you main house panel - wire a 100 amp sub-panel in the garage from this new breaker - from the sub panel in the garage install 30, 50, 60 amp charger from the sub panel (or NEMA plugs) - 100 amps will be good for the future - because this is your first EV, not your last EV and you're like to have more EV's in your future not fewer- eventually you'll want to charge two EV's overnight so having a 100 amp circuit and sub panel in the garage makes it cheaper/easier to add the 2nd EV charger in the future and have both charge at a reasonable rate given your future planning and getting a 100 amp circuit for EV charging.

my goal is having the electrician visit only once, only pull permits once, and only have the pain/suffering/hassel once - so installing "more" EV charging capacity means avoiding a 2nd, 3rd, 4th electrician visit in the future once you end up with multiple EV's. the cost here is NOT the EV charger equipment or even the breaker/wire - it's the labor hassle time permits for pulling and inspecting the new 240 volt circuit - it's only incrementally more costly to wire a 100 amp circuit vs. 30 amp circuit - so do more now - and it will be easier/cheaper in the future when you need to expand your home EV charging infrastructure to support your 2nd EV (or even a Hybrid + PureEV) - no permit or inspection required in the future to add a 2nd 50 amp breaker and 2nd EVSE to an existing/permitted/inspected 100 amp sub panel - also given the sub panel is probably in the garage the wire and the 2nd EVSE will be "close" to the subpanel so time/costs are minimal to setup the 2nd EVSE - possibly even a DIY 2 hour weekend project if the 100 amp sub panel is already I the garage with extra breaker slots for the 2nd 50 amp breaker.

daveo4porsche

standard equipment list from the Porsche Taycan site (porscheusa.com)

daveo4porsche

See post #4 on this thread for an update - the 25 ft cord is NOT a $0 option since that will also “pull” the PMCC ($1120) - there are better choices for a mobile EVSE J-1772 charger for way less than $1120 - porsche is not the best or highest quality in this space -only the most expensive.

daveo4porsche

this is an image of the "included" Porsche EVSE included with the Taycan - Porsche Mobile Charger Plus - this part is IDENTICAL to the VW/Audi charger shipped with VW/Audi vehicles - other than the "logo" on the box - the spec's capabilities are identical across the VW/Audi/Porsche product line (so are the parts numbers by the way even with the different logos) - what is not shown here is the supply cable (NEMA 14-50, 6-50, 14-30, 6-30) cables that would come out the right side of the charging box in the picture - what is shown is the vehicle charging cord that goes from the charging box to the vehicle - default choice for this cable length is about 15ft - I recommend that you seriously consider the $0 25ft cord option at the time you order the vehicle - it gives you much greater freedom in charger placement vs. the car for charging on the road and at home in the drive way. See post #4 for update - 25 ft cord also forces $1120 PMCC - not the most economical choice vs. other non-Porsche options. I’m still a fan of 25ft cord - just not via the porsche route - other vendor EVSE are a better, higher quality, more affordable choice.the Porsche/Audi/VW maximum charging capabilities is 9.6 kW - or 240 volts @ 40 amps - this electrically requires a 50 amp NEMA plug (NEMA 14-50 or 6-50) with a 50 amp breaker and appropriate and associate wire gauge from the breaker to the plug - the only difference between 14-50 and 6-50 is the number of "blades/slots" in the female plug - 4 vs. 3 - functionality is identical - since in both cases only 3 "blades" are used for EV charging - the two 120v "hot" and ground - in the NEMA 14-50 plug the 4th "blade/slot" is the electrical neutral/common - neutral is unused for EV charging - NEMA 14-50 plug adapters are provided by most EV chargers for compatibility (NEMA 14-50 plugs are 50 amp RV hook up in campgrounds, race tracks, and RV parks) - but the neutral is not required for EV charging - therefore in traveling in North America if you're lucky enough to find a 240 volt outlet - chances are it will be a NEMA 14-50 plug - so it's the most common type of 240 volt outlet you will encounter in the wild.

NEMA 6-50 is pretty common in mechanic's garages for an arc welder - both NEMA 14-50 & 6-50 are 50 amp 240 volt circuits - so you can use either one and it will charge at 9.6 kW - you can in fact purchase a $40 adapter from Amazon that converts 14-50 to 6-50 or vice versa - so if you have the PMC+ w/NEMA 14-50 and the $40 adapter from Amazon you can charger your Taycan at either a 14-50 or 6-50 plug while you are out and about traveling in the wild.



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so you have different NEMA supply cables for flexibility/compatibility with various plugs you might encounter while away from home so you can charge your EV most anywhere if you can find a 240 volt electrical outlet - however with the rise of more and more public fast chargers - the need to use the PMC+/PMCC while on the road is rapidy decreasing - these days I"m using my mobile EVSE and NEMA adapters less and less and just relying on public fast charging stations for which I simply use the public charger leaving my personal charging equipment (and adapters) packed in the trunk and unused - this was not the case in 2014 for my first road trips…but it's 2021 and there are lots of public chargers now, and there will be more in the future - so the need to have your own charger and a range of NEMA plug adapters while traveling is rapidly decreasing.

VW/Porsche/Audi also include a NEMA 5-15 supply cable - this is your normal household 120v plug type in North America - so by swapping the 240 volt supply cable for the 120v supply cable you can charge your EV at most any plug you are likely to encounter in North America - the NEMA 5-15 plug type is good for trickle charging overnight at hotels to keep the car warm and avoid losing battery capacity overnight - but really not a serious option for charging an EV - but some power is better than no power when you have few options.

the PMC+/PMCC are the most expensive EVSE's on the market and frankly in my opinion there are many better, higher quality, more affordable options - but the VW/Porsche/Audi one is included with the vehicle as part of your purchase so there is little reason to purchase an alternative beyond the one provided.

the PMC+/PMCC are in fact Porsche/VW/Audi versions of a standard J-1772 EVSE - and while they will charge your Porsche/Audi/VW- they will also charge any other EV/PHEV sold in North America - by design the EV charging standard (J-1772 in North America) is NOT vendor specific - rather it's a standard all North American EV's conform to. So ANY EVSE sold with 99% of EV's in North America will also function/charge/work-with any other EV sold in North America - so once you have one EVSE (Porsche or otherwise) it's good to go for any other EV you may purchase in the future, it's also useful because you can provide charging to friends and family visiting your home - the EV chargers that come with all EV's are NOT vendor specific - and will charge any other EV…

the only difference among vendors is the plug-types they support - which in fact correspond to the maximum AMPs the EVSE will provide to the vehicle - a Nissan Leaf EVSE WILL charge your Taycan - but only at a maximum rate of 16 amps - the Porsche EVSE will Charge a Chevy Bolt - but the Bolt's maximum amps are 32 amps - therefore the Porsche's EVSE 40 amp maximum is underutilized when charging a Bolt or Leaf.

daveo4porsche

underneath the covers ALL Level 2 - EVSE's sold in North America are 3 wire 240 volt designs/specficaitionsyou can purchase NEMA 14-50/6-50/Hardwired version of all these EVSE's from multiple vendors

the different plug types are window dressing/compatibility - they are electrically identical - and the following "blades/slots" are used

X Blade: 120V source
Y Blade: 120V source
Ground: Ground
Neutral: Unused
X + Y is how you get 240 volts

NEMA 6-50 only has X/Y/Ground blades/slots - the Neutral is missing in this plug type

if your EVSE is hardwired - well then your just using wirenuts/high-voltage splices to connect the two hots and the ground - clipper creek for example sells plug and hardwired versions of all their EVSE's the only difference is the addition of a $12 to $20 NEMA pig-tail

the only difference between a hardwired EVSE and one with a plug is the addition of something like this when they ship it to you.






the plug is just a modular version of hardwiring the 3 electrical connections (2 hots + ground)- electrically there is NO difference, and it's trivial to convert a hardwired EVSE to a plug type - or convert a plug based EVSE to hardwired.

given the fact that EVSE only use 3 wires - this is why an adapter from 6-50 to 14-50 is trivial and safe - or vice versa for EV charging.for EVSE's that offer more than 50 amps - the ONLY choice is hardwiring - there is NO NEMA standard plug type for any 240 volt circuit in excess of 50 amps - hardwiring the 3 connectors is the only option to meeting building codes and electrical safety standards.

so if you purchase a 60/80/100 amp EVSE it will be hardwired by definition - but it will still be only 3 wires - 2 hots + ground

the J-1772 charging standard allows AMP rates from 8 to 100 amps - if you plug a normal Taycan into a 100 amp J-1772 charger it will only charge at 48 amps - since that the limit of the AC/DC converter installed by Porsche at the factory in the vehicle. But the J-1772 standard documents and allows up to 100 amps - Tesla/Rivian/Lucid Air all support (or have announced support) for 100 amp L2 charging in North America - Porsche has an option for MY'23 vehicles for 19.2 kW charging. - this is the 100 amp standard for J-1772.

You can install _ANY_ J-1772 charger you like - it only requires a 240 volt breaker and appropriate wire gauge for the breaker size - and it will charge you Taycan just fine. NEMA plugs are "window dressing" to make it simpler to plug-unplug your EVSE - but under neath the covers it's just a fancy way of connecting 3 separate wires for 240 volt AC power.

daveo4porsche

my goal here is to demystify this stuff - EVSE are really just fairly normal benign 240 volt appliances like you electric: stove/oven/dryer/water-heater/airconditioning/arc-welder/air-compressor or any number of other normal 240 volt appliances.

NEMA 14-50 also is nothing special - it's the common way anyone with a Recreational Vehicle gets power to their RV at any RV park they've ever visited - NEMA 14-50 is a 240 volt 50 amp circuit and enormously common at camp grounds, RV parks and many commercial institutions. If you own an RV you've probably been using a NEMA 14-50 the entire time - you just never knew it.

Given how common RV's are - this leads to NEMA 14-50 being the most common 240 volt 50 amp circuit you can find - therefore having your EVSE use this type of plug leverages all the existing NEMA 14-50 plugs in North America. Which means if you ship an EVSE that uses this type of plug- you can have it installed at home (common and well understood) and also while traveling since this is the most likely plug you'll encounter when away from home.

you can convert a plug based EVSE to hardwired by cutting off the plug and just hard wiring it into an electrical box, conversely you can convert a hardwired EVSE to plug based by visiting Home Depot and purchasing a $29 pig tail like the one I linked above

the ONLY trick with EVSE is that they range in AMPS from 8 to 100 amps - this is a very very wide range of wire gauge required for safety when dealing with high amps - you really really do not want to pull 100 amp across 14 gauge wire - it will melt - it will short - and it will catch fire. for 100 amp EVSE you're talking 4/3/2 gauge wire as required by building code for safety - so it's pretty beefy stuff once you're talking about 100 amps at 240 volts - which is why there is no plug based solution for a 100 amp EVSE - hardwired only please for safety.

you just can't slap a random high amp 240 volt appliance onto any old wire gauge you find lying around in the garage:

daveo4porsche

the complexity of adding an EVSE to your home isn't really the EVSE - it's the building codes for any 240 volt circuit and the fact that residential home vary wildly in their existing electrical setup and capacity - so it comes down to:

• you most likely need an electrician
• you need a permit
• you need to see if there is physical room in your homes main panel to add another high amp 240 volt circuit
  • adding an EVSE to your home is no different than adding a hot tub to your home - can your home handle another 240 volt 50 amp circuit?
• if there is physical room for a new breaker - there may be not "capacity" in your panel to add another 240 volt circuit (local building codes require certain ratios of AMP's vs. the main feed from your power provider)
• once you find room and AMP capacity in your panel - you now have the labor/materials cost to "install" the new circuit
  • high amp wire and labor to pull the wire are the majority cost - the NEMA plug type and EVSE are the cheap part of the equation - NEMA plugs are $12 + the $12 box to put them in.
  • if your panel is "full" and you have to "upgrade" - 70% of the total cost will be the panel upgrade and labor to do the panel upgrade - again the EVSE cost will melt away vs the cost to upgrade your home's main electrical panel.
• most electricians don't know how to advise clients in this space
• all dealers are clueless in this space
• and people don't know what to ask for

but really installing an EVSE is like any other 240 volt appliance - it's a big deal - but at the same time it's not.

how do you decide what to "ask" for from your electrician?

well that depends on what EVSE you're going to use.

so the process in my opinion is:

1. Decide which EVSE vendor you are going to go with.
2. Review the EVSE vendors options for AMP requirements - Porsche supports 30 or 50 amps via 4 NEMA plug choices (2 50 amp plugs and 2 30 amp plugs)
   1. more amps = faster charger - up to the limit of the EV you plan to purchase
   2. for home use it doesn't matter which plug you specify
   3. the only reason plug type matters is if you want to use the Porsche EVSES while away from home - and that requires you to "guess" what type of plug you might encounter in your travels
      1. you might for example get a NEMA 6-30 plug because you know your Uncle Mark has one of those at his cabin, and you use the cabin twice a year - so it would be good if you had that type of plug so you could charge the Taycan at Uncle Mark's cabin.
   4. But really the plug type doesn't matter for your home charging - you will tell the Electrician what plug type you want to match what you order from Porsche - they do not electrically matter - and the only difference between the 4 plugs is 30 vs. 50 amps - 30 amps is slower, 50 amps is faster
   5. NEMA 14-50 is the most common choice (50 amps 240 volts)
3. while there are a wide range of choices - 4 240 volt breaker sizes are the most common
   1. 30/40/50/60
4. Have your electrician review your home's existing electrical configuration - they will advise you on if your home can handle your requested 240 volt circuit based on their knowledge of local building codes
   1. install cost will be heavy variable based on your existing home's electrical system and the distance from the main panel to your requested charger location (normally in your garage)
      1. home's on a slab - no crawl space - and there is no good "path" from the main panel to the garage…{sigh} this is going to be costly.
   2. sometimes adding the capacity is trivial - but running the wire form the main panel to the garage is just ridiculous expensive
   3. other times it's trivial to add a circuit form the main panel to the garage because the main panel is like 6 ft away form the garage and shares a wall
   4. some times the main panel is "full" both physically and capacity wise - and it requires you to install a whole new home panel an possibility upgrade your home's 100 amp service to 200 amp service to meet local building codes to add a new 40 amp circuit
      1. bonus cost up the wazzooo if your electrical service is underground and therefore requires trenching to add a 60 amp circuit which required upgrading from 125 amp service to 200 amp service…
      2. if you live in California and PG&E is your power provider - good luck getting PG&E underground service division to respond to your request for service upgrade in less than a decade - they studied at the Soviet Beaucratic School of Customer Service, and they graduated top of their class for Soviet era style customer service focus - really really awesome to deal with these folks.
5. If the electrician can install your requested 240 volt circuit then you need to make a choice with regards to hardwired or plug type
6. Mostly you're going to request a NEMA 14-50 or 6-50 plug type
7. if you're going with 60/80 amps or more you'll be going hardwired (clipper creek HCS-60 or HCS-80 for the win)

once you've added the breaker/wire/junction-box or NEMA plug - that actual installation of the EVSE is trivial - it's the complexity of adding a whole new 240 volt circuit to your existing home - and sometimes that's trivial - and sometimes that's just ridiculous because of local building codes, when your home was built and what existing 240 volts circuits you already have - honestly it's no different that adding a hot tub - your home either has the capacity or it doesn't - if it doesn't there are options, but it could be expensive to upgrade your residential electrical system to handle that one extra 240 volt circuit.

Sample Phone Call #1:Sample Phone Call #2:Sample Phone Call #3
you may be surprised to find out that the cost difference between phone call #1, #2 and #3 isn't all that great - which is why I recommend #3 if your home can handle it - the cost isn't the EVSE or the number of AMPS you're requesting - it's the entire hassle of adding ANY 240 volt circuit to your existing setup - but in for a penny in for pound - you should seriously consider getting a bigger circuit to the garage to make the 2nd EVSE easier and cheaper in the future. One doesn't want to pay an electrician $1000 to pull 40 amp wire form the main box to the garage - and then 2 years later when you get your 2nd EVSE pay them again to pull another 40 amp circuit for another $1000 - better to pay $1400 and pull 100 amps in the first place - then adding the 2nd EVSE won't require the 2nd visit.

daveo4porsche

I seriously hope this helps - apologies for the blather - but I'm home and bored tonight - and this stuff is hard to sort - and dealers and electricians are of little help - but this is a long term investment in your home and you'll use EV charging for the remainder of your occupancy - there is more EV in your future - not less - and getting a good home EV charging installation is really really the key to EV ownership happiness - better to over due it a little bit - but only do it once - rather than upgrading it every 2-4 years....

daveo4porsche

specify the high quality Hubble NEMA 14-50 plug type - it's heavy duty and will handle years of plugging and unplugging your EVSE - it's like $90 but it will outlast the crap $12 Leviton 14-50 plug most electricians will install - if you hold both in your hands you will feel the difference in quality (weight)

240 volts @ 50 amps is a LOT of power - this is not the place to shave costs…this plug will transmit power for HOURS continuously every night while you sleep - every night - you really really don't want sone cheap plug that may melt in your garage below your bedroom shorting out a 3 am while it charges your EV - this is not the place to shave costs…

EVSE's are unique in the 240V appliance realm - few if any 240V appliances run at steady state maximum power for hours on end with NO break - if you bring your Taycan home at 5% battery and plug in - you will pull 9.6 kW (240 volts at 40 amps) for close to 10 solid hours with _NO_ break or dip in current demand - virtually no other 240 volt appliance will run at full capacity - most will cycle on/off/on/off/on/off - your oven may pull 9.6 kW but it will only do it for like 20 min - and when it reaches temp it will stop pulling power, then pull again for 2 min to maintain temp - but it will cycle on/off/on/off/on/off - EVSE's run flat line at full power until the battery reaches it's target capacity - that could take 10 hours of continuous use to fill a Taycan battery - again the is NOT the place to cheap out on wire gauge, wire quality (copper vs. aluminum other other alloy) or quality of the components - specify and demand the best…cheaping out in this area could lead to shorts and fires and melting.






you really really don't want this thing shorting or melting - the higher quality plug will be better over time - and will need to last for years…

Drifting

I always appreciate all of your posts, dave. You really add a great deal to the forum.

daveo4porsche

this is what happens when you fail to specify high quality components -fortunatly building codes requiring all splices/connection to be inside a metal box avoided a fire that night in my attic…this was a 60 amp circuit that some how developed a short while charging my Tesla - it had worked fine for years, but one morning I woke up and my EV chargers were dead - I eventually traced the problem to this box in my attic - and it had failed the night before while we were sleeping.

note this is NOT a failure of the EVSE - but rather the wire pull from the main box to a junction box on the way to the garage - no idea why it failed, but it clearly went wrong and the metal box was the only thing that prevented a fire

specify, inspect and required high quality components and workman ship - 240 volt at 40/50/60/80/100 amps is non-trivial amounts of power and really really requires best practices since it will be heavily used at maximum capacity for YEARS nearly every day.

CopperWire
Highquality connectors
Highquality breaker
Highquality Plugs
Fully Sealed Boxes with no openings to contain any shorts/sparks
Wire inside of conduit to avoid pests chewing on the insulation (even if building code doesn't require it)
Higher gauge wire than specified - if building code requires 6 gauge - request 4 gauge - this will pass inspection because it's "over-spec" and will run cooler for the rated load

no cheaping out.