kayjh

You can "ask" all you want.

Maddie288

Folks, just providing an update. I got this message from my Service Manager. He reached out to Porsche NA and received this response. We still do not have a solid ETA on our SW update for MY21 E3 hybrid. I will keep you posted if something changes.

3-Pedals

Have you spoken to a lawyer yet?

Drew_W

Got my Cayenne back last Thursday from its second visit to the dealer for the CEL. Porsche had the dealer order a "power electronics unit" and estimated a 4-6 weeks to come in from Germany. Anyone have this unit replaced yet?

crazycanucck

Not sure why you’re so adamant about this being a non issue to be honest.

Reaction from members in this thread are pretty reasonable. Also a good chunk of the owners who buy these cars aren’t first time Porsche owners. So it’s not a lack of loyalty to the brand.

Like someone else said here. I’m not about to sell a $200K car I’ve had for a month and take a hit on resale just because Porsche doesn’t have a working solution yet. Lemon laws exist for a reason. I’ll keep pressuring PCNA for a fix and I’d recommend everyone else do the same. You don’t need to go down Lemon route but don’t take the issue lightly if CEL is persistent.

crazycanucck

Quick update: my wife is convinced she can repro the issue if she starts the car while parked on an incline. So far she's 3/3 on this repro. Worth for others to give it a shot so there's some data Porsche can use for a potential repro/fix.

kayjh

My poor (financially speaking) friend has been driving his 1991 Honda Accord for 3 years with a DRL light illuminated for 3 years. Based on what I’m reading here, I’ve told him to sue Honda for mental distress. As I’ve written, drive the car with the light on until they fix it. None of the CEL related faults associated with that light are emergency types, those are covered by the red ones. So now, people can just get on with their lives.

Sean Wang

Mine did, bought the Panamera 21 4E-Hybrid last month, the CEL came on the 2nd day when the battery run off, I did not charge it and drove directly to dealer and no solution at all, they say it you can leave the car here or you can drive it home since it does not affect anything... actually I heard the problem before I booked the car, I thought it won't happen to me, coz I really like the car and I am not that lucky.., searched all forums and it happened to a lot of Hybrid owners, guess I have to wait for the software update, this thread is very helpful.

IslandPorsche

That is not a fair comparison at all. Do you honestly believe that a brand new car should have the same type of issues as a 30 year old car? If your brand new Porsche showed up with a big dent in the hood and a huge scratch down the side and the dealer told you that they didn't have a fix for it and weren't sure when they would, but it doesn't affect drivability, would you still take the car off the lot? I would expect that on a 30 year old car, but not on a brand new one. Now, I don't have this CEL issue, but I can see why those who do are considering their options. If they want to lemon law the car, I don't see the problem with that either.

kayjh

This is only my opinion but, if the legislation in some US states allows a car to be lemon'd for any defect regardless of how small then in my opinion it misses the mark of what it should be. While the legislation works to make manufacturers sell a vehicle of merchantable quality (in legal terms - "fit for the purpose for which it was made"), it is counter productive if any defect no matter how small can result in a vehicle being forced back on the manufacturer.

I wonder out of the thousands of people who have purchased/leased the eHybrid are unsatisfied wit the CEL light so much that they would even consider the thought of having the manufacturer buy it back? I think the law should be limited to defects that interfere with the owners ability to operate the vehicle "normally" and/or safely. Otherwise, where do you draw the line? Rusty bolts, creaking sunroof, squeaky door, strange noises, etc?

Cars have inherent design flaws that get fixed in the next model year through constant re design and product evolution. That is what keeps people buying new cars. My GTS' PCM is often slow to boot, the rear AC system keeps blowing on high every time I restart the car even though I have set it to sync with the front area fan which is set to low. There is a whirring sound from the transfer case they say is normal, but I didn't hear in any other Cayenne I test drove. So, should I be able to lemon the car for those reasons?

I think we need to recognize that cars have evolved into computers on wheels and like our desktops there may be "bugs" that appear in the code than need to be corrected. it can't always be done over night - even Microsoft and Apple can't fix things that quickly. Just because the item (Cayenne) is $150,000, it doesn't alter that fact.

Car won't start, brake, stop, turn, provide heat/AC, headlights, safety systems, etc. yes, Lemon the car. Idiot lights not working properly? Lemoning a car for that is, in my opinion, ridiculous and is comparable to my friend asking for damages for the failure of his DRL light (tongue in cheek).

Applying too high a standard to manufacturers can result in 2 things; (1) higher car prices to cover the annual lemon buy backs in the US if they become a significant cost of doing business by operation of that law and/or delays getting certain models to market while small bugs crop up and take time to be worked out. Either way it adds cost. So, hop on board and bang your fist on the table about the idiot light and wait 12 months for your replacement eHybrid while they work things out or get ready for cost increases (on top of the ones we are already seeing).

Me, I'll put up with a few idiosyncrasies and just enjoy the car.

IslandPorsche

Again, I don't have this issue with my vehicle, mine isn't even a hybrid, so I am not going to bang my fists on the table over this. Like I suggested earlier, would you accept the dealer scratching your car and then telling you that they will get around to it when they have time and it is convenient for them because the car is still drivable or would you want them to fix the issue ASAP?

You act like the CEL light is just a nuisance (idiot) light. In some instances it very well may be, like if the car is charged by the 7.2KW charger. However, in other instances the CEL light may be a more dire situation leading to more dire consequences. So, how do you know the difference? Do these people have to go out and purchase a reader that can tell them all of the codes that brought on the CEL and then reset the light, or do they need to bring it in to the dealer each time they get the light to have the car checked out. Either way, it is a cost or inconvenience that should not happen.

In some states, a CEL light won't let the car pass inspection, so the car is not allowed to be driven because the state isn't going to try to figure out if the CEL is just a nuisance light or a sign of a bigger problem. Is that OK with you? What if your state required inspections and your car failed for the transfer case noise? The dealer says it is normal, but the inspector doesn't think so. They won't pass you for the inspection. What do you do, try to fight the state so that you can drive your car, wait for Porsche to come up with a fix while not being allowed to drive your car, or lemon law the car if Porsche can't get it to a condition that allows it to pass inspection in the allotted time under the law?

We are all entitled to our own opinions. If someone isn't happy with a CEL and the state allows them to lemon law it, so be it. That is their choice. If they want to live with it, again, it's their choice.

I'm glad that you are enjoying your GTS even though there are some things that are not working correctly on it. I am also happy with my Cayenne. I do, however, understand those that want to return a brand new product that isn't functioning as it should regardless if it cost $15 or $150,000

daveo4porsche

this is not the stereo rebooting a few time and car play taking too long to pair

this is the freak’n CHECK ENGINE LIGHT - it means you should take it to the dealer - it’s the only way to diagnose the problem - a check engine light will not pass any state/govt. inspection - it would be considered fraud to sell a car in this condition and not disclose the fact there is a CHECK ENGINE LIGHT - Porsche provide NO method to tell the different between “bad” Check Engine Lights and ones that don’t matter - becuase it’s a simple LIGHT that is either on or off for 1000’s of reasons…

the only way a consumer can determine if a CHECK ENGINE LIGHT is something to be concerned about is to take it to the dealership for diagnostics. This light occurs at random sometimes multiple times a day. Any car that needs diagnostics multiple times a week is a LEMON. If it’s not a serious problem Porsche’s software should NOT illuminate the light

otherwise how are you supposed to own a vehicle that requires diagnostics from the dealership multiple times a week?

it’s a serious problem - it simply baffles me that people seem to think this is no big deal. Porsche should not be rewarded for shipping software that un-necessariliy causes me to lose time and vehicle usage because they can’t get their error handling correct.

you are right it’s a simple and innocuous problem - that is exactly why there is _NO_ excuse for Porsche to be shipping a premium vehicle in this sort of state

it’s a serious problem from a top manufacturer that should have never passed QA - and at this point they still have NO response 6 months after it was diagnosed and brought to their attention and they are still selling new cars with this now known defect…please don’t apologize for companies knowingly selling a defective product - they deserve the cost of buying back their defective product - my other Porsche’s don’t have this problem - I expect the same of this model in their product line.

there are in fact “trival” problem - and there are in fact reasons to not trigger lemon law - CHECK ENGINE LIGHT warning is probably not the place to make that stand in my opinion….let’s instead talk about how sometimes wireless car play needs to be re-paried with your phone…for it to work and it takes to long to “start up”

kayjh

Let's just agree to disagree. As I wrote, the CEL doesn't denote a condition that will damage the engine - there are red lights for that. You can also monitor oil temp, oil pressure, oil level, water temp, etc. in multiple displays, so you know you don't have an engine problem. In addition, the dealer has checked the problem and Porsche has said its OK to drive the car as is until they come up with a fix. Let's face it, you're pissed because your car isn't perfect. So if you can get it Lemon'd good for you - now go to Mercedes or BMW and try and find a better driver. You won't and you'll be faced with problems over there as well.

IslandPorsche

Wow!! That's all I can say.

Here is a link to possible problems with a Check Engine Light. At least one says there is a major issue. Nowhere does it say to just disregard the light and that one CEL can't lead to further CEL issues.

daveo4porsche

NO let's not - it's not that it's not perfect - it throwing a code which requires me to take to the dealer every time it appears - the manual recommends a dealer visit for diagnostics if a check engine light appears - you fail to grok that you CAN NOT SELL THE VEHICLE IN THIS STATE WITH A UN RESOLVED CHECK ENGINE LIGHT. Also the check engine light can denote problems that will damage the vehicle or it is in a state that is unsafe to drive. There is no way to know what type of problem you are experiencing without a diagnostic. If you call Porsche road side assistance they will recommend you NOT DRIVE THE VEHICLE while a CEL is showing - and will dispatch a tow truck.

It's a serious problem, it is unacceptable and you are simply wrong if you feel it's ok.

Porsche itself considers the vehicle "undriveable" with an undiagnosed CEL. Once it's diagnosed only then can you determine if the vehicle is safe to drive. But that requires a dealer visit for each CEL.

You are simply wrong - plain and simple.