2019 Cayenne Battery
#106
Ordinarily, it’s been my experience that batteries are treated like tires - failures handled under the battery or tire manufacturer’s warranty, but not the car’s. But a battery that costs $2100, and to my knowledge can be obtained only from Porsche, ought to be a Porsche warranty item. What did your dealer say?
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Bill P. (08-31-2022)
#107
Rennlist Member
I checked the 2019 Porsche Warranty Booklet. On page 5 it states the warranty will not cover ”Batteries damaged from storage, lack of normal vehicle use, or non-Porsche approved electrical or accessory installation.”
https://files.porsche.com/filestore/...nty-Manual.pdf
On page 7 Porsche defines Normal Vehicle Use as;
.” . . at least 15 miles / 24 kilometers per day or 6000 miles / 9600 kilometers per rolling 12 months.
• If you drive less than the above-mentioned limits, or in the event of prolonged storage, contact your local authorized Porsche dealer for instructions.
(Note: A battery maintainer is available at your local authorized Porsche dealer. It must be used to maintain your vehicle’s battery state of charge if your vehicle will not be used for several days.)”
That gives them lots of wiggle room to stick you with the replacement cost, claiming you didn’t drive it enough to keep the battery charged. Dash cam wasn’t a Porsche dash cam? Sorry, you buy the battery.
You might get some good will from the dealer. If you pay for the battery, perhaps they can install it gratis. Worth a try. Good luck and keep us posted with the outcome.
Last edited by Schnave; 08-02-2022 at 12:33 AM.
#108
Rennlist Member
FYI, this model year has no key access to the trunk. No battery power = no open trunk. Since you need the wrench in the trunk to disengage the transmission for towing, this is a problem. I would consider relocating this red wrench from the trunk to a more accessible location.
I moved my transmission shift lock release wrench to the glove box. I put together a small tool kit for other gotchas.
The emergency hatch release requires a small screwdriver to remove the access cover and to slide the release lever. Problem is, the screwdriver is located under the cargo floor and you are kneeling on the cargo floor to access the release lever. Do yourself a favor and keep a small screwdriver in the toolkit.
The fuse boxes require tools for access. A T30 Torx and screwdriver are located in the tool kit under the cargo floor. If the cargo hatch fuse blows, see paragraph above.
If you have a dog cage strapped down on the cargo floor or happened to load 28 bags of mulch in the back (yes, they fit), you’ll be thankful you tossed a T30 Torx and a couple trim tools in your toolkit.
Fuse box under dead-pedal requires small screwdriver to pry off the cap and a T30 Torx to remove the cover.
Fuse box on dash requires a pry-tool to gain access. A screwdriver will damage the cover. Recommend a plastic trim tool for removal.
Last edited by Schnave; 08-02-2022 at 01:14 AM.
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david-nyc (10-13-2022)
#109
I just got a brand new eHybrid and am getting bit by this. It's parked in a garage, and they leave the car unlocked with window open.
First time, car was dead after ~17 days. Got a jump, and it was fine. Just now tried to get the car again after 17 days and dead again. I have not jumped it yet. Bought a Microgravity starter.
Few questions
- Do I need a new battery? It seems like the Cayennes have a way to protect the battery.
- How long can these cars sit without being driven?
- What can I tell the garage attendants to do to make sure this doesn't happen again?
First time, car was dead after ~17 days. Got a jump, and it was fine. Just now tried to get the car again after 17 days and dead again. I have not jumped it yet. Bought a Microgravity starter.
Few questions
- Do I need a new battery? It seems like the Cayennes have a way to protect the battery.
- How long can these cars sit without being driven?
- What can I tell the garage attendants to do to make sure this doesn't happen again?
#110
if possible can we know what brand and specs these AGM batteries are? I am wondering if it would be possible to replace the lithium batteries with AGMs when the former dies out.
#111
Rennlist Member
Here’s a lengthy thread discussing the technical hurdles of retrofitting AGM batteries to factory installed LFP batteries with internal battery sensors.
https://rennlist.com/forums/cayenne-...e-battery.html
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azra (09-01-2022)
#112
User campyspeed posted a photo of his AGM battery. It is a Varta H8 rated at 92Ah with an external battery sensor.
Here’s a lengthy thread discussing the technical hurdles of retrofitting AGM batteries to factory installed LFP batteries with internal battery sensors.
https://rennlist.com/forums/cayenne-...e-battery.html
Here’s a lengthy thread discussing the technical hurdles of retrofitting AGM batteries to factory installed LFP batteries with internal battery sensors.
https://rennlist.com/forums/cayenne-...e-battery.html
My question is how the 48 volt PDCC works. Will I have a 48 volt Lithium in addition to the AGM 12? There is another view that a DC/DC converter let’s the 12 volt run the PDCC…seems odd if true!
#113
Rennlist Member
I’m getting mixed info on Porsche Batteries. The Lithium pictured early in this thread was a 13.2 volt Lithium. Now the Cayenne is shipping with an AGM.
My question is how the 48 volt PDCC works. Will I have a 48 volt Lithium in addition to the AGM 12? There is another view that a DC/DC converter let’s the 12 volt run the PDCC…seems odd if true!
My question is how the 48 volt PDCC works. Will I have a 48 volt Lithium in addition to the AGM 12? There is another view that a DC/DC converter let’s the 12 volt run the PDCC…seems odd if true!
Your PDCC has a separate 48V battery to power the 48V PDCC motors. The battery is better described as a super-capacitor and is charged by the 12V system. It doesn’t care about the starter battery chemistry; it just wants a 12V source for the DC/DC converter to up-convert to 48V.
A super capacitor stores energy in an electrostatic field; not in an electrochemical reaction like batteries. This allows it to fully charge in less than 10 seconds and is designed to provide near instantaneous full discharge when needed; a feat that would destroy a LiFePO4 or AGM battery.
It is located under the cargo floor and should last over one million charge cycles; the life of the vehicle.
More on Super-capacitors here:
https://www.futurebridge.com/industr...ry-technology/
https://www.e-motec.net/ultracapacit...hicles-in-2021
Here's a great article with all the cool technology in your Cayenne:
https://www.motorauthority.com/news/...enne-deep-dive
More on the PDCC here:
https://www.hotcars.com/this-is-the-...e-sports-cars/
Here's the simplified electrical system schematic:
Last edited by Schnave; 09-04-2022 at 11:17 PM.
#114
Your PDCC has a separate 48V battery to power the 48V PDCC motors. The battery is better described as a super-capacitor and is charged by the 12V system. It doesn’t care about the battery chemistry; it just wants a 12V source for the DC/DC converter to up-convert to 48V.
A super capacitor stores energy in an electrostatic field; not in an electrochemical reaction like batteries. This allows it to fully charge in less than 10 seconds and is designed to provide near instantaneous full discharge when needed; a feat that would destroy a LiFePO4 or AGM battery.
It is located under the cargo floor and should last over one million charge cycles; the life of the vehicle.
Here's a great article with all the cool technology in your Cayenne:
Here's the simplified electrical system schematic:
A super capacitor stores energy in an electrostatic field; not in an electrochemical reaction like batteries. This allows it to fully charge in less than 10 seconds and is designed to provide near instantaneous full discharge when needed; a feat that would destroy a LiFePO4 or AGM battery.
It is located under the cargo floor and should last over one million charge cycles; the life of the vehicle.
Here's a great article with all the cool technology in your Cayenne:
Here's the simplified electrical system schematic:
#116
Rennlist Member
I have struggled with the Porsche charger since I picked up the GTS with the lithium battery. I wasn’t able to get the 12v plug to work so tried the alligator clips on the under hood posts. Worked once than always dropped out of program to power only light on charger. Porsche swapped with another one and same results. It fully charged to green light another time but mostly failed. Just went back to 12v outlet, with the correct procedure to connect, and now it works. Goes to green fully charged light. Turned on accessory with headlights and the charger goes back to bulk mode eventually reaching fully charged. Tried this a couple times and it worked. Not sure what’s up with connecting to the posts.
#117
Gents,I want to install a 60ah (or more) lifepo4 on my cayenne 2012 diesel 3.0 v6.OEM is agm 105ah.. have anyone of you have tried?Do you think would work? Please only relevant comments,i already know cost more ,etc Thanks
#118
Racer
Just took delivery of a 2022 Cayenne base demo. June 2022 build. Asked the dealer what battery was in it so they looked under the hood and the label says Lithium. I said not so fast, I reached under the cover on passenger side and guess what…. AGM. They were surprised, I was pleased , now I don’t need to buy another maintainer.
#119
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New info from an article (not published online) on Porsche batteries in the August 2022 issue of Excellence Magazine. Below is info from Excellence and other sources.
https://www.excellence-mag.com/issues/292
Also check out the link for a great article on the Cayenne GTS!
Porsche was the first car maker in the world to offer a Lithium starter battery. The lightweight, 13 pound, 18 Ah battery was available for the 2010 GT3 and Boxter Spyder as a €1,904 option.
https://www.porsche.com/middle-east/...ternational-de
The second generation battery was conventionally shaped and boasted a 40 Ah capacity. It was offered beginning in 2013 on the 991.1 GT3 and Cayman GT4. This battery was not powerful enough for the Cayenne.
(Source: Excellence, Issue 292)
In 2016, Porsche was in the process of redesigning the Cayenne 958.2 with an emphasis on weight reduction, as I posted earlier. In November 2016, the EU proposed a complete ban on the use of lead which would have decimated the automotive battery industry.
https://www.xing.com/communities/pos...ies-1012416615
Given this proposed ban and the weight reduction goals of the redesign, Porsche decided to task two battery suppliers (A123 Systems and LG Chem) to develop a lightweight 60 Ah lithium battery to power the new Cayenne 9YO. To help amortize costs, the battery was also offered in the Bentayga and Urus. It was later installed in the 2020 992 and as the accessory battery in the Taycan.
(Source: Excellence, Issue 292)
So there you have it. The reasons were both technical and political!
The proposal to ban lead in batteries is still alive and if implemented, will send shockwaves through the automotive industry. As if we need another shock to the industry right now.
https://www.assent.com/blog/lead-fur...d-under-reach/
https://www.bestmag.co.uk/eu-proposa...ough-industry/
Bonus Picture: The 9YO battery with the top removed. Check out the circuitry for the Battery Management System.
https://www.excellence-mag.com/issues/292
Also check out the link for a great article on the Cayenne GTS!
Porsche was the first car maker in the world to offer a Lithium starter battery. The lightweight, 13 pound, 18 Ah battery was available for the 2010 GT3 and Boxter Spyder as a €1,904 option.
https://www.porsche.com/middle-east/...ternational-de
The second generation battery was conventionally shaped and boasted a 40 Ah capacity. It was offered beginning in 2013 on the 991.1 GT3 and Cayman GT4. This battery was not powerful enough for the Cayenne.
(Source: Excellence, Issue 292)
In 2016, Porsche was in the process of redesigning the Cayenne 958.2 with an emphasis on weight reduction, as I posted earlier. In November 2016, the EU proposed a complete ban on the use of lead which would have decimated the automotive battery industry.
https://www.xing.com/communities/pos...ies-1012416615
Given this proposed ban and the weight reduction goals of the redesign, Porsche decided to task two battery suppliers (A123 Systems and LG Chem) to develop a lightweight 60 Ah lithium battery to power the new Cayenne 9YO. To help amortize costs, the battery was also offered in the Bentayga and Urus. It was later installed in the 2020 992 and as the accessory battery in the Taycan.
(Source: Excellence, Issue 292)
So there you have it. The reasons were both technical and political!
The proposal to ban lead in batteries is still alive and if implemented, will send shockwaves through the automotive industry. As if we need another shock to the industry right now.
https://www.assent.com/blog/lead-fur...d-under-reach/
https://www.bestmag.co.uk/eu-proposa...ough-industry/
Bonus Picture: The 9YO battery with the top removed. Check out the circuitry for the Battery Management System.
That fact is we are looking at some options that require simply changing out some of the cables to the Battery in the Porsche system, which is exactly what they do when they have swapped some of these Lithium Battery systems back to accept an AGM Battery, but we have not moved on it due to the fact that if anyone takes their Car to a dealership to get worked on then Porsche will say our Lithium Battery caused any and every problem with their Car the flat tire. But we are trying to find exact clarity on the exact wiring/cables needed so if the Customer can order those parts from Porshe then they can swap back to AGM use instead of being forced to continue using the Lithium Porsche Battery Then you won't have to use THIER proprietary Lithium and can use our Antigravity Lithium Batteries or a regular AGM Battery instead. But we'll keep you guys in the Loop.
Last edited by Antigravity; 11-10-2022 at 05:19 PM. Reason: Horrible spelling and unclear writing..
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Schnave (11-10-2022)
#120
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