2019 Cayenne Battery
02-25-2019 | 08:55 AM
#46
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I actually bought a Micro-start XP-1 a few years ago. I think its the old model. I have never used it, but I checked the charge on it last night and it was still about half charged after 4 years. I will keep it in my Cayenne now. I also plan to get a LiFePO4 charger as I do not have one and I think all 9Y0 Cayenne owners will need to have one in the case of issues.
02-25-2019 | 08:59 AM
#47
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Battery was charged and the car was started on the flatbed after resetting the gateway. Not sure when or where started on the second failure. I did not know to or have a way to check the voltage when the problem occurred. Now the voltage gets my first attention.
All other functions locks, rear door, lights, etc worked. Porsche remedies for emergency starting did not function. Even their unpublished remedies did not function.
I had suggested to Porsche to install a switch to reset the gateway in order not to have to remove the drivers seat. This issue should have never gotten this far.
I really learned from and appreciate your info regarding the lithium batteries. Thank you.
All other functions locks, rear door, lights, etc worked. Porsche remedies for emergency starting did not function. Even their unpublished remedies did not function.
I had suggested to Porsche to install a switch to reset the gateway in order not to have to remove the drivers seat. This issue should have never gotten this far.
I really learned from and appreciate your info regarding the lithium batteries. Thank you.
02-25-2019 | 09:24 AM
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They sent the Cayenne back to me after the first failure after sending several readings to Germany and making sure the car still started after 5 days. No parts changed.
They still have the car from the second failure which they are keeping until after they have a software update.
The dealers hands are tied by Porsche here, but they are taking care of a couple of non related issues that needed to be done while they have the car.
In a nutshell, not a whole lot. Sadly.
They still have the car from the second failure which they are keeping until after they have a software update.
The dealers hands are tied by Porsche here, but they are taking care of a couple of non related issues that needed to be done while they have the car.
In a nutshell, not a whole lot. Sadly.
02-25-2019 | 09:48 AM
#49
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They sent the Cayenne back to me after the first failure after sending several readings to Germany and making sure the car still started after 5 days. No parts changed.
They still have the car from the second failure which they are keeping until after they have a software update.
The dealers hands are tied by Porsche here, but they are taking care of a couple of non related issues that needed to be done while they have the car.
In a nutshell, not a whole lot. Sadly.
They still have the car from the second failure which they are keeping until after they have a software update.
The dealers hands are tied by Porsche here, but they are taking care of a couple of non related issues that needed to be done while they have the car.
In a nutshell, not a whole lot. Sadly.
02-25-2019 | 11:17 AM
#52
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Scott form Antigravity Batteries...I will interject some stuff..
1- That is super unfortunate that the Cayenne went dead for you BCA... I can tell you in general why the Porsche Lithium Battery won't come out of the SLEEP MODE (protection mode) quickly even when you attach a CTEK... This is because, in general, the Battery Management system in the Battery itself, and additionally the Cheyenne wants to see a solid 12v ~12.5v BEFORE it will allow the battery or Car to wake up. How this works is the Cars system also wants to see it has enough Power to engage the ECU and other functions of the Vehicle BEFORE it will let it start the vehicle. So if it is seeing an over-dishcarged "state of Charge" (soc) then it will wait until it the battery reaches the magic number Porsche (and whoever makes that battery) wants to see, as I said usually between 12 and 12.5v minimum, then it will alllow the system to move forward with fully waking up and allow a start attempt.
So my thoughts on this are that your CTEK Charger is NOT putting out sufficient Amperage/Current at a high enough voltage to make the Car think it is at a solid voltage (state of charge) and can come out of SLEEP MODE. CTEKS are usually rated at 4 Amps... but when the battery is in an over-discharged state, then the CTEK Charger will be offering a LOWER voltage, and current to massage the Lithium Battery back up to a certain voltage (say 11.5v) at which point it will start charging at higher voltages and with more current. So until this point the Car thinks its still over discharged and will wait until the battery is sufficiently charged before allowing the start. If you have this problem again you might want to look at some Optimate Chargers which offer a higher Current charging on some of there models, and I think their latest has a boost assist...
Additionally, I think you can overcome this with a mini-jump Starter such as our MICRO-START (https://shop.antigravitybatteries.com/productline/micro-starts/ product... because I think if you supply a solid 12v to your existing battery in the Cayenne the system should let it start. I can't imagine you have to wait 30 minutes for they system to recognize a solid 12v. I think the tech might have been told this since it would take about 30 mins for a Dead Lithium Battery to get up to a sufficient voltage that the car will allow the start. But with a connected solid 12v I think the Car will immediately think the battery is sufficiently charged and allow the Start attempt. Interestingly we just got our latest cables for a Harness kit we are making for Porsches that allow you to connect our MICRO-START product to a Porsche Battery (or any car actually) to energize it and be able to open the Frunk or Jump Start the Car... but seeing as you have had this problem in your Brand New Cayenne it might be worth a look to work in your circumstance. Basically its a wiring harness that allows you to connect your MICRO-START directly to the Battery itself then allows you to just plug the MICRO-START onto this harness... thus energizing the car with the MICRO-START. So the car then thinks the Battery is charged... the Battery itself should be brought our of sleep mode also by this connection and you should be able the then start the car. Basically you just connect our Harness to your Battery, then if you ever have a dead Battery you plug our MICRO-START to this harness (no -clamps needed) and ENERGIZE your entire Car. It was originally designed for Motorcyclists so they did not have to remove the seat to access jump start the Motorcycle.. but the Car guys started buying them so they did not have to carry the clamps to jump start using the MICRO-START, you just plug it in. So this might be a way for a Cayenne user to prevent this problem from occurring in the future. And since you Battery is IN the Car you can probably just use our Short Harness kit rather than the longer one we are just coming out with. Here is the Link to look at what I'm talking . https://shop.antigravitybatteries.co...-harness-xp10/
2- Do you know exactly how long you left the Cayenne before the battery was over-discharged? From your statements it appears it was not very long.... so you want to really monitor that over the next few weeks and perform some voltage readings. This will give you some hard data on what to expect from that battery. At 60 Amp Hours you should , in theory, be getting way over a month even in a Car with a somewhat heavy parasitic draw. ON the 991s and forward the Battery Managing on the Porsche is really good and 30Ah can easily get 7 weeks provided you don't have aftermarket accessories. Also check if you have aftermarket chargers, or anything plugged in.... those will draw down batteries quickly because most aftermarket companies making accessories don't care about the draw these products create on your system.
3- To address some other stuff I read. Lithium-Ion is an umbrella term for ANY Lithium "re-chargeable" battery chemistry.... so you can call any Lithium-Ion Battery that is rechargeable a Lithium-Ion battery though most associate it with Lithium Polymer/Lithium Cobalt as found in most of the electronics like phones and tablets.... The Car Batteries are definitely Lithium-Iron Phosphate (lifepo4) because it operates in a similar voltage range as lead acid batteries and is compatible with automotive charging system, and is more stable than some other formats. But you don't want to use a Lead/Acid Charger on them, but in the Car they are fine being charged by the Cars system.
4- Last all we do is Lithium-Ion products and are well aware of the issues like this occurring in Street Cars, so our Antigravity Batteries actually have a WIRELESS BUILT-IN Jump Starting feature that eliminates this exact issues. For example if you over-discharge you Car with our Battery.... you simply press the Wireless Remote Keyfob.... our battery wakes up and supplies a full 13.2v to the Car and you Start your Car and drive away... Not saying you should replace your Lithium with ours.... I don't know how Porsche designed that new system in the Cheyenne, I'm just promoting a bit there since not everybody know about how advanced we have taken Lithium-Ion Starting Batteries.
1- That is super unfortunate that the Cayenne went dead for you BCA... I can tell you in general why the Porsche Lithium Battery won't come out of the SLEEP MODE (protection mode) quickly even when you attach a CTEK... This is because, in general, the Battery Management system in the Battery itself, and additionally the Cheyenne wants to see a solid 12v ~12.5v BEFORE it will allow the battery or Car to wake up. How this works is the Cars system also wants to see it has enough Power to engage the ECU and other functions of the Vehicle BEFORE it will let it start the vehicle. So if it is seeing an over-dishcarged "state of Charge" (soc) then it will wait until it the battery reaches the magic number Porsche (and whoever makes that battery) wants to see, as I said usually between 12 and 12.5v minimum, then it will alllow the system to move forward with fully waking up and allow a start attempt.
So my thoughts on this are that your CTEK Charger is NOT putting out sufficient Amperage/Current at a high enough voltage to make the Car think it is at a solid voltage (state of charge) and can come out of SLEEP MODE. CTEKS are usually rated at 4 Amps... but when the battery is in an over-discharged state, then the CTEK Charger will be offering a LOWER voltage, and current to massage the Lithium Battery back up to a certain voltage (say 11.5v) at which point it will start charging at higher voltages and with more current. So until this point the Car thinks its still over discharged and will wait until the battery is sufficiently charged before allowing the start. If you have this problem again you might want to look at some Optimate Chargers which offer a higher Current charging on some of there models, and I think their latest has a boost assist...
Additionally, I think you can overcome this with a mini-jump Starter such as our MICRO-START (https://shop.antigravitybatteries.com/productline/micro-starts/ product... because I think if you supply a solid 12v to your existing battery in the Cayenne the system should let it start. I can't imagine you have to wait 30 minutes for they system to recognize a solid 12v. I think the tech might have been told this since it would take about 30 mins for a Dead Lithium Battery to get up to a sufficient voltage that the car will allow the start. But with a connected solid 12v I think the Car will immediately think the battery is sufficiently charged and allow the Start attempt. Interestingly we just got our latest cables for a Harness kit we are making for Porsches that allow you to connect our MICRO-START product to a Porsche Battery (or any car actually) to energize it and be able to open the Frunk or Jump Start the Car... but seeing as you have had this problem in your Brand New Cayenne it might be worth a look to work in your circumstance. Basically its a wiring harness that allows you to connect your MICRO-START directly to the Battery itself then allows you to just plug the MICRO-START onto this harness... thus energizing the car with the MICRO-START. So the car then thinks the Battery is charged... the Battery itself should be brought our of sleep mode also by this connection and you should be able the then start the car. Basically you just connect our Harness to your Battery, then if you ever have a dead Battery you plug our MICRO-START to this harness (no -clamps needed) and ENERGIZE your entire Car. It was originally designed for Motorcyclists so they did not have to remove the seat to access jump start the Motorcycle.. but the Car guys started buying them so they did not have to carry the clamps to jump start using the MICRO-START, you just plug it in. So this might be a way for a Cayenne user to prevent this problem from occurring in the future. And since you Battery is IN the Car you can probably just use our Short Harness kit rather than the longer one we are just coming out with. Here is the Link to look at what I'm talking . https://shop.antigravitybatteries.co...-harness-xp10/
2- Do you know exactly how long you left the Cayenne before the battery was over-discharged? From your statements it appears it was not very long.... so you want to really monitor that over the next few weeks and perform some voltage readings. This will give you some hard data on what to expect from that battery. At 60 Amp Hours you should , in theory, be getting way over a month even in a Car with a somewhat heavy parasitic draw. ON the 991s and forward the Battery Managing on the Porsche is really good and 30Ah can easily get 7 weeks provided you don't have aftermarket accessories. Also check if you have aftermarket chargers, or anything plugged in.... those will draw down batteries quickly because most aftermarket companies making accessories don't care about the draw these products create on your system.
3- To address some other stuff I read. Lithium-Ion is an umbrella term for ANY Lithium "re-chargeable" battery chemistry.... so you can call any Lithium-Ion Battery that is rechargeable a Lithium-Ion battery though most associate it with Lithium Polymer/Lithium Cobalt as found in most of the electronics like phones and tablets.... The Car Batteries are definitely Lithium-Iron Phosphate (lifepo4) because it operates in a similar voltage range as lead acid batteries and is compatible with automotive charging system, and is more stable than some other formats. But you don't want to use a Lead/Acid Charger on them, but in the Car they are fine being charged by the Cars system.
4- Last all we do is Lithium-Ion products and are well aware of the issues like this occurring in Street Cars, so our Antigravity Batteries actually have a WIRELESS BUILT-IN Jump Starting feature that eliminates this exact issues. For example if you over-discharge you Car with our Battery.... you simply press the Wireless Remote Keyfob.... our battery wakes up and supplies a full 13.2v to the Car and you Start your Car and drive away... Not saying you should replace your Lithium with ours.... I don't know how Porsche designed that new system in the Cheyenne, I'm just promoting a bit there since not everybody know about how advanced we have taken Lithium-Ion Starting Batteries.
My car sat at port for several weeks, then sat at dealer for a few weeks. I normally wouldn't buy a vehicle that had sat this long but the spec was good, we couldn't find any others inbound, and an order would have taken months. I got it on Saturday, spent through Tues detailing it (which involved countless opening and closing of doors as I was standing on the sills to reach the roof), and Tues night is when I first noticed that comfort access wouldn't work to open the doors and I got a low battery message on the PCM. During those first couple of days, I'd also turned the ignition on for just a few minutes a couple of times to set some things, store presets, etc.
This morning was the first time I drove it since I got it 9 days ago and all seems fine.
Which of your micro-start units specifically would you recommend for us Cayenne owners? There are several and I can't tell which would work best, and obviously I would prefer not to waste money by purchasing a more powerful unit than I really need. I might pick one of these up just to carry in the vehicle for peace of mind.
02-25-2019 | 11:42 AM
#53
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I actually bought a Micro-start XP-1 a few years ago. I think its the old model. I have never used it, but I checked the charge on it last night and it was still about half charged after 4 years. I will keep it in my Cayenne now. I also plan to get a LiFePO4 charger as I do not have one and I think all 9Y0 Cayenne owners will need to have one in the case of issues.
The issues are the older versions arewithout the newer protections and upgrades we have done over the last 4 years. Secondly, I don't want a 4 year old unit that has not been used to be out there. A 4 year old battery that has not been exercised year by some form of use may in fact be deeply overdischarged. So don't bother even trying to charge it, even if you want to. Let's just swap it out. We've come a long way in the 4 years and our clamps and everything else has been upgraded. We have upgraded a number of features and completely changed the design. So if you haven't used it, we'll just get you squared up with a new one no charge. Yes they can hold a charge a long time but 4 years should have over-discharged it. So lets take the uncertainty out of it and we'll trade it out.
My email is scott@antigravitybatteries.com
02-25-2019 | 11:55 AM
#54
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Well keep us posted. Welcome to the forum. I am a little surprised that we have not seen too many posts from you with 8 past Porsches. But nevertheless less its nice to have you on here. What state are you in again, I see that you mentioned you are in the US.
02-25-2019 | 11:56 AM
#55
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Can you write to me OCNY.... we'll trade that unit out. If you have not used it in 4 years, then I prefer you NOT use it. We'll get you a new one.
The issues are the older versions arewithout the newer protections and upgrades we have done over the last 4 years. Secondly, I don't want a 4 year old unit that has not been used to be out there. A 4 year old battery that has not been exercised year by some form of use may in fact be deeply overdischarged. So don't bother even trying to charge it, even if you want to. Let's just swap it out. We've come a long way in the 4 years and our clamps and everything else has been upgraded. We have upgraded a number of features and completely changed the design. So if you haven't used it, we'll just get you squared up with a new one no charge. Yes they can hold a charge a long time but 4 years should have over-discharged it. So lets take the uncertainty out of it and we'll trade it out.
My email is scott@antigravitybatteries.com
The issues are the older versions arewithout the newer protections and upgrades we have done over the last 4 years. Secondly, I don't want a 4 year old unit that has not been used to be out there. A 4 year old battery that has not been exercised year by some form of use may in fact be deeply overdischarged. So don't bother even trying to charge it, even if you want to. Let's just swap it out. We've come a long way in the 4 years and our clamps and everything else has been upgraded. We have upgraded a number of features and completely changed the design. So if you haven't used it, we'll just get you squared up with a new one no charge. Yes they can hold a charge a long time but 4 years should have over-discharged it. So lets take the uncertainty out of it and we'll trade it out.
My email is scott@antigravitybatteries.com
02-25-2019 | 12:05 PM
#56
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Yes, it just needs voltage. I don't know that there would be any jumper specific to these batteries...anything that puts out enough voltage should do it.
Thanks, Scott. Yes, the tech said something about dropping below 12.5 volts and having to see that voltage for long enough before it'll wake back up. The CTEK has a mode to overcome this protection mode as discussed above (I suppose by kicking out some higher voltage for a time?) but it just didn't seem to work for me. And since it couldn't recognize a battery at all, it just went into error mode after 30 seconds and was therefore never going to solve the problem.
My car sat at port for several weeks, then sat at dealer for a few weeks. I normally wouldn't buy a vehicle that had sat this long but the spec was good, we couldn't find any others inbound, and an order would have taken months. I got it on Saturday, spent through Tues detailing it (which involved countless opening and closing of doors as I was standing on the sills to reach the roof), and Tues night is when I first noticed that comfort access wouldn't work to open the doors and I got a low battery message on the PCM. During those first couple of days, I'd also turned the ignition on for just a few minutes a couple of times to set some things, store presets, etc.
This morning was the first time I drove it since I got it 9 days ago and all seems fine.
Which of your micro-start units specifically would you recommend for us Cayenne owners? There are several and I can't tell which would work best, and obviously I would prefer not to waste money by purchasing a more powerful unit than I really need. I might pick one of these up just to carry in the vehicle for peace of mind.
Thanks, Scott. Yes, the tech said something about dropping below 12.5 volts and having to see that voltage for long enough before it'll wake back up. The CTEK has a mode to overcome this protection mode as discussed above (I suppose by kicking out some higher voltage for a time?) but it just didn't seem to work for me. And since it couldn't recognize a battery at all, it just went into error mode after 30 seconds and was therefore never going to solve the problem.
My car sat at port for several weeks, then sat at dealer for a few weeks. I normally wouldn't buy a vehicle that had sat this long but the spec was good, we couldn't find any others inbound, and an order would have taken months. I got it on Saturday, spent through Tues detailing it (which involved countless opening and closing of doors as I was standing on the sills to reach the roof), and Tues night is when I first noticed that comfort access wouldn't work to open the doors and I got a low battery message on the PCM. During those first couple of days, I'd also turned the ignition on for just a few minutes a couple of times to set some things, store presets, etc.
This morning was the first time I drove it since I got it 9 days ago and all seems fine.
Which of your micro-start units specifically would you recommend for us Cayenne owners? There are several and I can't tell which would work best, and obviously I would prefer not to waste money by purchasing a more powerful unit than I really need. I might pick one of these up just to carry in the vehicle for peace of mind.
As far as the best MICRO-START... the best seller is the XP-10... but that can also do Diesel Trucks up to 7.0 Liters, and charge Tablets and Cell Phones multiple times. It fits in your hand, but the others which would do mostly the same thing but not start the Diesels are fine also. I would say the XP-1 and XP-3 are a good fit because they are compact yet will EASILY start the Cayenne about 25 times on one charge... plus still charge your cell phones about 4 times in a row too. XP-3 is very compact also.
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trodelpost (08-18-2022)
02-25-2019 | 12:35 PM
#57
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I live in Florida and Indiana. I usually do not go to the boards unless I might have a specific problem or looking for something specific.
In all my previous Porsches I had no problems or issues. The 2019 was delivered 12/17 in Indiana. Unfortunately it had problems and issues. If I had not had such perfect experiences with my other Porsches, I would have probably given up on this one by now.
I actually care as much about Porsches reputation as they do.
I posted earlier on this board but titled my post "2019 Cayenne will not start" where I should have said something about battery.
You have a great board!!!!
In all my previous Porsches I had no problems or issues. The 2019 was delivered 12/17 in Indiana. Unfortunately it had problems and issues. If I had not had such perfect experiences with my other Porsches, I would have probably given up on this one by now.
I actually care as much about Porsches reputation as they do.
I posted earlier on this board but titled my post "2019 Cayenne will not start" where I should have said something about battery.
You have a great board!!!!
02-25-2019 | 12:55 PM
#58
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From: Midlothian, TX
I did not go straight to the battery and disconnect because I discussed that with the service tech and he said that it still would not have gone online because the gateway would have still needed resetting (although that may have caused the gateway to reset?). Secondly, I did not want to try it, fail, and loose what setup I had.
I am wondering if the move to lithium batteries was a good one as it seems they may be very sensitive and quick to go offline.
I could see applying lithium technology to low-weight sports cars. A Miata comes to mind. But Porsches are historically heavy across the board. Other than as a look-at-how-clever-we-can-be move, I do not understand the application here.
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engin_ear (12-30-2023)
02-25-2019 | 01:10 PM
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You are perfectly correct! Porsche and we owners are paying a very unhappy price for this. We may not even be close to the end of this issue.
All the talk off having to carry battery chargers, jumper cables, trickle chargers, and start switches is pretty sad.
All the talk off having to carry battery chargers, jumper cables, trickle chargers, and start switches is pretty sad.
02-25-2019 | 01:26 PM
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I talked to a local dealer, and they had a number of Cayennes not start after sitting just a short period of time with everything seemingly working right. They took it up to the headquarters. So it's not an isolated issue, and Porsche should be looking into this. Some hypothesize it's just a result of early production cars sitting a very long time in the port, but I suspect there is more to it.