mxp0

Hi,
I am new to the forum but trying to learn as much about these 2019 Cayenne model LiPo battery issues.
Sorry for noob questions, but is it possible to pay a reputable independent Porsche mechanic/workshop to replace and install an AGM battery into these 2019 Cayennes?

I am interested to purchase a used 2019 Cayenne but quite fearful of "inheriting" this problem from past owners of the used vehicle.
So, should anyone considering a purchase of a used 2019 model, err on the safe side and just replace this LiPo battery with a new AGM for peace of mind immediately after purchase?

Thank you for any advice.

pinion

Due to the fore mentioned BMS computer that is part of the Lithium battery you can not simply replace it.

This computer typically drives the charging and discharging systems directly by controlling allowed voltages and associated loads. It will also trigger a self protect system that fully disconnects the battery internally as a last resort for protection as some will have found when the battery runs down for various reasons.

This is why the AGM battery is interesting, in order to make this work one of the battery cables must have a control module in it that satisfies what the rest of the vehicle system is looking for… but obviously without the rest of the battery management functions of the Lithium BMS.

beefchopper

I believe it was with the 2019 models.

dasams

If you search for 'AGM' in this thread, you'll see that the first mention was June '22 (post 97) and it states that the '22s were coming with AGM batteries.

beefchopper

Excuse me. I read it quickly and had thought the question was when did they start using the problematic lithium batteries when I said 2019.

dasams

Why am I researching these batteries?

I woke up yesterday to a dead Li battery in my Cayenne GTS even though it was on a CTEK maintainer. I have an AntiGravity voltage monitor on my battery and yesterday at approx 8:50 the voltage dropped out. My GTS was sitting in the garage and I noticed this because the CTEK had two lights on instead of all six. I launched my voltage monitor but it would not connect. Tried to start the car and nothing. Was able to restart it with my AntiGravity Micro-start and then I drove it around for a bit, put it back in my garage, waited a min and then restarted it. At this point, the battery appeared normal. Then I put it back on the CTEK.

Checked this morning and the CTEK had all 6 green lights on indicating a full battery. Pulled out the CTEK and tried to start the car but the battery was dead. Currently at the dealer. Will know more tomorrow.

I've had my battery since Nov '20 and have 13,300 miles so not enough miles to meet Porsche's guidelines. Here's yesterday's voltage trace.

dasams

For those interested, there's a long thread about the Li batteries in the 992 forum. AntiGravity is trying to use an AGM neg ground cable to their batteries to see if it works (post #164). Anti also said in post 137 that a Porsche dealer was able to use the neg ground cable and an AGM battery to replace the Li battery that was unavailable at that time. I sure would like an AGM solution.

See https://rennlist.com/forums/992/1299...battery-4.html

chassis

Yes let's hope a solution is found on 992 or Cayenne.

mxp0

Thanks for your explanation.
Will it be easy to quickly and momentarily remove the passenger carpet area to visually check for the type of battery? If can see that if its AGM, it will be clearly labeled as such.
Again, I am interested in a 2019 model but rather perform a self check before purchasing a used 2019 Cayenne.
Thanks again..

Antigravity

Firstly, don't let them tell you you have to drive it a certain amount of miles a year.... that is utter and complete hogwash which will not hold up whatsoever. The simple reason is because a Battery Charger or Maintainer can keep the battery perfectly charged without ever having to drive the Car. This is typical Porsche smoke and mirrors to not warranty faulty products and blame it on the Customer.

Also if you notice your Porsche Battery dropped out competely at 13.2v (approximately) from what I can see on the Antigravity Battery Track Snip you show. If you put your finger on the screen it will give you the exact voltage in a red line so you can know. Anyway the Porsche Battery should not be cutting off abruptly like that because 13.2v if the perfectly correct Charge for Lifepo4 Automotive Batteries. Meaning it went into it Protections/Sleep Mode while fuly charged which is NOT how this should work. You would normally see the battery voltage being discharged down to a low voltage point such as 10.5v or whereever they set it THEN it will put itself into Protection/Sleep Mode. It should not just shut off at a basically fully charged 13.2v range. So that is a faulty Battery for sure. You can tell them that. Now I don't like to point fingers at Porsche's Battery without playing devils advocate also and looking at other issue..., because perhaps your Battery Tracker got lose on the terminals? Or are your terminals propertly tightened... that can also play a part in voltage just dropping off abruptly. So check that just to make sure on that side of things..

kenv

Seems like Porcsche is walking a fine line with lemon laws. Depending on the state sounds like there might be some claims.’

dasams

Scott - Thanks for the reply. The Battery Tracker is bolted tight so a loose connection is not possible.

Porsche found faults for low voltage and also found that the software wasn't up to date. They performed the ATI 2229.8 campaign under warranty and I'm happy to report that I picked up my GTS yesterday there was no charge for me 👍

BTW, the service manager said two thing that were interesting. First off, he said that if I was going to use a battery maintainer, then I should connect it to the posts under the hood instead of using the cig light plug in the center console. So I'm going to order some clips and set it up so that I have a quick connect the CTEK.

Secondly, he was surprised that I was able to jump start the GTS and I showed him my AntiGravity Micro-Start. He said that Porsche recommends that you should only use a lead acid battery to jump start saying that a Li battery may generate too many watts. Hmmm. I've been quite happy with my Micro-Start and will continue to carry it in my GTS so I have it when needed.

chassis

The dealer is posturing and messaging to find a reason to deny future warranty coverage.

If it isn't in black and white in the owner's manual, and the dealer states some baloney about what a consumer "should have done", it's baloney.

kenv

Cynically thinking….I’m thinking Porsche has programmed the battery management system to kill the lithium battery after x amount of years. All the charging isn’t going to get the battery beyond their predetermined point. Plus a faulty battery on top of it all. Guess we’ll find out soon enough.

Totally disgusting of them to put in a proprietary battery system and then charge an outrageous amount for replacement.

Tells you want they think about their customers…

This is somewhat akin to what John Deere tried to pull. Locking up their software so that only dealers could repair their farm implements. JD ended up backing down after all the lawsuits.

kenv

Doing some quick math roughly 250,000 Cayennes produced world wide in model years 2019-2021. Avg battery replace/repair $3000. An extra $750 million in revenue. Add in all the 911’s too….way over a Billion $.

Plus add all the money they don’t to pay out for repairs from voided warranties.

That is assuming the battery is only changed once before the car hits the scrap
heap.

The accountants are running the show.