Gotta love Facebook...ran across this one the other day! Lawyers!

 

Yeah, I'm getting that pop up too. as for the deletes, its really my wife's daily and I just bought a ram for towing my racecar, so I'll not modify it, especially while its warrantied.

 

Yeah I would have nothing to do with mods while under warranty.

 

AM out of the game....this issue is done for me. We took delivery of a 2016 Cayenne v6 today with all the options we wanted and had on our previous Cayenne diesel except of course the engine. Our Cayenne diesel delivery was just not going to happen and no word from Porsche on when it would ever get released was just a bridge too far. Had been waiting for the car since Nov (expected delivery) and today we pulled the trigger on a great deal offered by dealer as a package for our delay. Actually saved a very good bit off original deal we had!

GM today said VW had submitted changes request to EPA/CARB and that it does include a flash and new catalytic converters which will need to be produced so recall if approved wouldn't take place until later part of the year and would start likely with pre-owned cars. Meaning they expected current cars sitting on doc for sale to either be last or possibly shipped back to Germany for retrofit or re-sale to some other market. CD is rumored to return for MY 17 sometime after re-design and is otherwise done for the rest of the '16 MY. Performance data/changes/losses are not avail to them yet but some slight decrease in mpg and maybe hp/torque is expected to meet/bring them in line with the EPA standards. Nothing yet in stone but this is what this dealership was hearing from the GM and a few of the Master Porsche technicians who had just returned from training at Porsche on the 918 (they had 3 of them in the place) and they new 911 turbocharged cars. Porsche hasn't even begun to think about the legal cases/class actions that will come next in the US. But they do have the solutions submitted so fingers crossed for you guys remaining out there with orders and CDs that need to be updated.

http://autoweek.com/article/vw-diese...n=awdailydrive

So to me the relative doubt and uncertainty just wasn't worth the wait. So far great car. Wifey is happy and you know what they say...happy wife...happy life!

 

Congrats. Diesel or not, its still an amazing vehicle. Enjoy it.

I bet EPA/CARB won't rest until they suck all the fun out our diesels. Not looking forward to this fix.

 

It's easy enough to get a portable tune for 20 to 25 percent more hp and torque to make up for any losses.

 

Circling back to a previous post.

If this is a SW fix only that does change the performance then what is fair compensation? Is everybody happy with just getting the extended warranty?

My suggestions before the extended warranty were:

Something like VW did ($1000 in gift cards/vouchers).
Discount on a future purchase.
Cash you out of your current car.

My suggestions that I would like to see now are:

- Trade-in and discounted into a new CD or current avail model, at no out of pocket cost
- No maint charges for 100k
- Discount on next Porsche purchase (kind of sleeves out of the vest)

There are only 13k or so CD's that are affected. Will Porsche do this differently than Audi or VW? I would hope so but those on tho aboard that own both 911 and Cayenne products know that the Cayenne isn't the same. I'll likely get a lot of hate mail for this but I never thought of the CD as 100% Porsche....will Porsche see it differently?

 

They've already posted that it won't be a software only fix for the majority of the CD owners. '15's and '16's will maybe see software flash only but as of now proposed fix is anything other than that [i.e. less than '15 MY] will need software and new cat converters. So I think at some point we'll likely see then released but with some effect on performance (likely due to added Ad Blue use and increased engine management/monitoring of emissions programmed in) and also due to the new cats re-design. From rumors and conversations with my dealership and others expect to see this about 6 mos after fix is announced to allow time for Porsche/VW to set up process, manufacture new cats/set up software flash and mature code, etc. GM said current owners will likely get fixed first then they will either fix outstanding cars for sale or possibly return them back to Germany depending on logistics of the whole enterprise (for retrofit or resale to other more favorable markets).

As for compensation...I think that is up to the lawyers and Porsche and maybe the govt. We chose not to continue the pursuit of our '16 CD waiting at port as there was just no certainty on they vehicle delivery and/or performance. That said we did receive a "compensation" package if you will call that on the '16 Cayenne v6 we took delivery of that sounds a lot like what you suggested from our dealer/Porsche which sort of made things acceptable enough to proceed with our Cayenne purchase. So I assume remaining owners will likely see something maybe? Recall another owner who moved to a Cayenne GTS and got a pretty good package also.

 

This doesn't leave any good options. The thought of a tech at my local dealership ripping out a perfectly good exhaust system, designed to last the life of the vehicle is unsettling. Do you really think it will be assembled with the same level of precision performed at the factory? They don't even wash the car correctly. I will also admit to a placebo effect- the car will never feel as fast after the re-flash, even if it is in reality. As unreasonable as it sounds, it's my thoughts of how I will feel about the car after the update. I know, unreasonable.

 

Here you go. Can't say what it will feel like or who will do the recall...nobody knows yet. Am sure it will be done properly and according to specs but understand how you will feel afterwards. Am sure many will feel the same and understand if you do. All is a big unknown as many have said.

http://article.wn.com/view/2016/01/1...ftware_and_ne/

 

mdrobc1213,

I assumed that most of us on this website were leaning away from any legal action and would prefer Porsche to step up. As far as the government getting involved in customer satisfaction...I don't think they will touch that part. They will look for compliance then leave it alone.

I know that Porsche management reviews forums like this, especially in this. They want to know if we are behind them first and know what they will be up against. Let's tell them...who knows.

PJ Cayenne

Agreed. My rule is, when a car of ours is hit (its happened once) where somebody has to paint part of the car, we sell it. One thing I have learned is that when you go to sell you don't want a "story car" i.e.: it was a small accident, I have the receipts, it was a 2015 caught up in the cheating scandal. How about those with the IMS Bearing, what a story.

I'm with you...I don't like the idea of non-factory work except that under PM.

Should what Porsche does for their owners be the same regardless of the year? I have 2015 so maybe I'm just a SW fix. But my car is new and now its a story car in its first few months of owning it. The older CD that require new CATs...should they be compensated more because of the level of work required?

There are a few parts: the fix, how the fix changes the spec, how the fix/scandal changes the owners feeling about the brand. Are there more parts?

 

First, everyone needs to get over the fact that Porsche isn't a 911 company any more. They are a luxury car manufacturer with a focus on sportiness. The CD is 100% Porsche, as are the rest of the Cayennes and the Panameras and Macans. Period. And, I believe, that there is no question of this fact in Stuttgart at all. So, being a luxury car brand, I think they'll certainly need to - and step and - do the right thing.

As for compensation, no, just the extended warranty isn't sufficient if performance and/or mileage is affected, though it depends on how badly they are affected. But if it's only consuming some extra DEF, then as far as I am concerned, no further compensation is needed; that stuff is cheap.

There may only be 13K CDs affected, but how Porsche responds will send a message to all current and future Porsche buyers. The world is watching and how they pull their heads out of you know where will have a huge impact on their future acceptance in the luxury world. Audi, too, really.

But all that said, if mileage and/or performance are significantly impacted, I'm not sure what I would consider fair. Would we want to get another? Would we want to stay in a Porsche (the new Range Rover diesels look really good...)? We will hold judgement and decide once we know all the facts. Just no point right now getting all wound up about stuff we don't know.

 

Wasn't advocating folks to sue...just know that it is part of the equation that I am sure Porsche is trying to figure out. Don't know contract law and am no lawyer so don't know what happens if folks have bought their CD's with expectations of certain value and performance and by nature of this (repairs, recalls, story car, etc) it no longer has that anymore or it is damaged...not sure what they are due. As for non-factory work...each time your car is worked on at the dealership for anything other than an oil change you can consider that non-factory work to a degree. We had a Panamera drop an oil pump and cooler and dump all of its coolant into the engine block...it was repeair by the dealership's Porsche Master tech...even it they had given us a new engine [which l lobbied for] it would be installed here stateside by a trained factory tech at the dealership...so I don't agree with that idea that ONLY work done at the factory is good! Hell I've seen some great dealership techs and some poor ones and some outstanding independent techs too. Whether repairs are done by the factory or not is a distractor...not feasible unless you plan on shipping your cars back to Germany [on your own dime likely]. Mostly likely folks will see a factory deisgned and approved part and fix and software update sent out to dealership or vehicle port processing facilities to update respective cars OR Porsche will ship them back to Germany for resale to other markets. Likely whatever option is best financially for them is what we'll see and that they feel the public/owners will support.

But I agree Porsche needs to step up to the plate and do something for those affected. Excuse me VW AG needs to figure it out. My fear is the more complex and longer this goes on...the harder it will be do it all painlessly when it comes.

 

Apparently if you own a far cheaper VW, you get taken better care of (so far). As I have stated before, a good deal of money was obliterated by this issue. Porsche is an arrogant company and I do not think they will do anything except be arrogant going forward. After all, they have "record sales" and as can already be seen by some of the comments here, their customers have enough wealth that 5-10k for the car is a drop in the bucket.

Let's not forget the time and aggravation cost as well. People going back and forth to the dealer to get fixes; people wasting time trying to get a car delivered. More trips to the gas station? Loss of performance? More DEF?

At the end of the day, I want Porsche to make us whole. A warranty alone is not going to cut it. It makes holding on to my car longer than I would have a bit less painful. Thanks to their lies the exit point of the car was too low for my comfort. I do hope Porsche reads this forum; because one way or the other, they will need to answer for it beyond making CARB/EPA happy. Right now I am being patient; once I see where things go, legal action will be considered and taken if necessary to be compensated beyond a silly "gift card" option we did not even get at this point. Porsche needs to step up and start talking to its customers affected by this issue.

 

Your view of people's financial views is both insulting and wrong.

It's more about being realistic and understanding what was happening overall. Sure this issue accelerated the depreciation some, but not as much as I think some people give it credit for. The simple fact is that due to the increased supply over the last 5 years diesels have been seeing a steady increase in their depreciation.

Buying any car and then whining about it's depreciation is just silly. This isn't a new concept and there are very few exceptions where depreciation doesn't occur so you can't claim 5-10k is important to you and not know about depreciation. Yes it certainly sucks that something I paid $70k for 3.5 years ago is now worth $45k, but I bought it with full expectations of it being worth half or less of what I paid for it by the time I was done. It's simply the cost of buying a new(er) car.

Yes 5-10k is important, but that's why I considered it BEFORE I made the purchase. I weighed the risks against what I believed were it's values and made my decision.

You should have to go to the dealer once for the fix and they will probably be giving you a loaner while they have your car. Lots of inconvenience and aggravation there Yes there are those that are a considerable distance from a dealer and it's not a simple, but that is something they needed to consider when they bought the vehicle since it's not like vehicles under a warranty never have to go back to the dealer. The ones that will have a question mark about convenience will be the ones that bought used through a source other than a Porsche dealer, but I expect they'll probably get loaners too.

I think it's fairly safe to assume that MPG will drop, but it's doubtful it will be by a significant amount to be considered an inconvenience. If you're going every 15 days now you might have to go ever 14 days. Furthermore, how many owners actually track their MPG accurately enough to be able to show monetary damages? Most, it seems, just look at what the PCM/MFD tells them and are happy with that number (which is wrong BTW).

As far as AdBlue goes, do you even know what your consumption rate is? Most people do not as they just get it topped off when their oil is changed.

You can't say that because you have no idea what the impact is at this point. Contrary to your opening line, we have gotten a much better opening deal with the warranty than VW and Audi owners have gotten.

VAG has certainly done harm and there is more to come, but until we know the full impact this rush to grab the pitchforks is just ridiculous and serving no beneficial purpose. What it does do, however, is keeps the issue stirred up which will help keep the depreciation rate up.