Diesel Cayenne and VW emission issue
10-27-2017 | 10:19 AM
#4321
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 8,947
Likes: 2,631
From: The Woodlands, TX.
The MPG calculator in every single car that I've owned that has had one (a fair few) is ALWAYS optimistic.
10-27-2017 | 10:30 AM
#4322
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,021
Likes: 46
From: MA
Our best mileage was 802 miles on a tank (CT to Syracuse and back, low 70s highway speeds). 31.5mpg hand calculated. It's a pretty flat ride, but maybe its the mileage though... we have 111k miles on our '13 and we made this run at about 105k. Most of the time, though, we fill up in the low 600s unless I'm towing (which nets about 14mpg or so with a 24x8.5 enclosed trailer and about 7k lbs behind the CD).
But let's be talk turkey about the fix for a minute.
If a 1mpg drop is realistic, power is similar, and AdBlue usage increases, who really cares? Some of you guys clearly have undies that are too tight, but not most. I never drive in sport mode, and I've never noticed the braking on hills, so I don't put much value on those, but I could be unique.
Most people aren't driving at full throttle all the time, so you aren't making the full power of the car when you drive (a whopping 240hp at that). So are you really going to notice a 10hp drop (10 is just pulling a number out of the air) when you give it half throttle coming out of a light, just trying to edge out the weirdo in the Prius next to you but not trying kill your average economy at the same time?
As for AdBlue usage, who cares? Tractor Supply had 2.5 gallon AdBlue containers for $8 recently. Walmart has it for $12 all day long. With my driving I think I spend about $60/yr on AdBlue fluid, and we put on a lot of miles (25-30k/yr). That is going to maybe increase to $84 a year? Ouch.
So now, if we think it makes sense to forego the second half payment to preserve that precious power and economy, lets look at the math real quick. Say your avg economy is 25mpg (cause its a Porsche and you like to give it the beans every now and again to show that Prius who's boss), and with the fix it's dropped to 24mpg. Most of us seem to drive 15k or so miles a year, except for me apparently. So your annual fuel usage goes from 15000mi/25mpg = 600 gallons x $2.75/gal=$1650/yr in fuel, to 15000/24mpg = 625 gallons x $2.75/gal = $1,718.75/yr in fuel, or a difference of $68.75/yr in fuel costs. Throw the $14 a year in AdBlue that you save, and you are ahead $82.75 per year. If your second half payout is the lowest level, like mine, cause you have a busted old '13, you miss out on ~ $4200... or a 50.75 year payback made up in your superior fuel economy and 6.8 second 0-60. Even if the economy drops 10% (or 2.5mpg, costing you $183.33/yr at 15k miles/yr and $2.75 a gallon), you still make money taking the fix and would take 22.9 years to recoup.
Oh, and the dealer will return the vehicle (post-fix) with a full tank of fuel and a detailing. So if you really want to stick it to PCNA and VW, bring it in on E and get an extra $50 or so worth of benefit plus a clean car.
So, with that said, is anyone seriously considering not getting the update? I know I'm going out on a limb that the mpg and drivability changes will be reasonable (and I could be wrong), but if they got it through the court system, with THIS level of scrutiny on the whole affair, they can't just make up numbers and lie. No way the lawyers would allow it, and the court would approve it without some degree of evidence. Even if we're off by a factor of 2, you are talking a couple hundred bucks a year in exchange for no less than $4k. And if the car sucks, you can always sell it. The market isn't terrible on CDs and there is a lot of pent up demand out there.
But let's be talk turkey about the fix for a minute.
If a 1mpg drop is realistic, power is similar, and AdBlue usage increases, who really cares? Some of you guys clearly have undies that are too tight, but not most. I never drive in sport mode, and I've never noticed the braking on hills, so I don't put much value on those, but I could be unique.
Most people aren't driving at full throttle all the time, so you aren't making the full power of the car when you drive (a whopping 240hp at that). So are you really going to notice a 10hp drop (10 is just pulling a number out of the air) when you give it half throttle coming out of a light, just trying to edge out the weirdo in the Prius next to you but not trying kill your average economy at the same time?
As for AdBlue usage, who cares? Tractor Supply had 2.5 gallon AdBlue containers for $8 recently. Walmart has it for $12 all day long. With my driving I think I spend about $60/yr on AdBlue fluid, and we put on a lot of miles (25-30k/yr). That is going to maybe increase to $84 a year? Ouch.
So now, if we think it makes sense to forego the second half payment to preserve that precious power and economy, lets look at the math real quick. Say your avg economy is 25mpg (cause its a Porsche and you like to give it the beans every now and again to show that Prius who's boss), and with the fix it's dropped to 24mpg. Most of us seem to drive 15k or so miles a year, except for me apparently. So your annual fuel usage goes from 15000mi/25mpg = 600 gallons x $2.75/gal=$1650/yr in fuel, to 15000/24mpg = 625 gallons x $2.75/gal = $1,718.75/yr in fuel, or a difference of $68.75/yr in fuel costs. Throw the $14 a year in AdBlue that you save, and you are ahead $82.75 per year. If your second half payout is the lowest level, like mine, cause you have a busted old '13, you miss out on ~ $4200... or a 50.75 year payback made up in your superior fuel economy and 6.8 second 0-60. Even if the economy drops 10% (or 2.5mpg, costing you $183.33/yr at 15k miles/yr and $2.75 a gallon), you still make money taking the fix and would take 22.9 years to recoup.
Oh, and the dealer will return the vehicle (post-fix) with a full tank of fuel and a detailing. So if you really want to stick it to PCNA and VW, bring it in on E and get an extra $50 or so worth of benefit plus a clean car.
So, with that said, is anyone seriously considering not getting the update? I know I'm going out on a limb that the mpg and drivability changes will be reasonable (and I could be wrong), but if they got it through the court system, with THIS level of scrutiny on the whole affair, they can't just make up numbers and lie. No way the lawyers would allow it, and the court would approve it without some degree of evidence. Even if we're off by a factor of 2, you are talking a couple hundred bucks a year in exchange for no less than $4k. And if the car sucks, you can always sell it. The market isn't terrible on CDs and there is a lot of pent up demand out there.
This might, other than my posts of course, be the best post of the entire thread. Too funny, you have a great sense of humor booch, I also love how you broke out the math=love it!
Yeah, some are all wound up too tight but that is just them and I can understand all the anxiety over everything, that is just their nature and the forum gives them and us a place to think out loud and express-a safe space for the Cayenne snowflakes.
It is funny, the words performance and diesel. Some feel, in their minds, that they are running their CD 10/10 and any perceiveable decrease in performance is not worth any money VW AG is going to throw their way, no sir. I love the " . . .l leaving the stop light at 1/2 throttle to outrun the wierdow in the Prius . . . " Fine, so be it. People are mad, upset, disgusted-they have that right, no problem. I'm pretty much worried about none of it as the CD already has more than I use 99% of the time and the truck already has way more performance and capability than anything else out there so I'm sure I won't notice a thing. I see it as Porsche warning us about the worst case scenario but I think it will be an under-promise, over-deliver situation that won't be an issue in the long-run.
Like you, I'm taking the money and am going to buy a snowbike kit and love my CD for as long as I'll have it. As it is I bought a 2 bike Versahaul and am waiting for my buddy to show up so we can take the day and go riding. I'm so curious to see first, how low the rear end of the Cayenne gets and then, how it feels while driving it. I'll have right around 600lbs on the tail/hitch.
10-27-2017 | 11:00 AM
#4323
Rennlist Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,623
Likes: 4
From: Virginia Beach VA
DITTO
Our best mileage was 802 miles on a tank (CT to Syracuse and back, low 70s highway speeds). 31.5mpg hand calculated. It's a pretty flat ride, but maybe its the mileage though... we have 111k miles on our '13 and we made this run at about 105k. Most of the time, though, we fill up in the low 600s unless I'm towing (which nets about 14mpg or so with a 24x8.5 enclosed trailer and about 7k lbs behind the CD).
But let's be talk turkey about the fix for a minute.
If a 1mpg drop is realistic, power is similar, and AdBlue usage increases, who really cares? Some of you guys clearly have undies that are too tight, but not most. I never drive in sport mode, and I've never noticed the braking on hills, so I don't put much value on those, but I could be unique.
Most people aren't driving at full throttle all the time, so you aren't making the full power of the car when you drive (a whopping 240hp at that). So are you really going to notice a 10hp drop (10 is just pulling a number out of the air) when you give it half throttle coming out of a light, just trying to edge out the weirdo in the Prius next to you but not trying kill your average economy at the same time?
As for AdBlue usage, who cares? Tractor Supply had 2.5 gallon AdBlue containers for $8 recently. Walmart has it for $12 all day long. With my driving I think I spend about $60/yr on AdBlue fluid, and we put on a lot of miles (25-30k/yr). That is going to maybe increase to $84 a year? Ouch.
So now, if we think it makes sense to forego the second half payment to preserve that precious power and economy, lets look at the math real quick. Say your avg economy is 25mpg (cause its a Porsche and you like to give it the beans every now and again to show that Prius who's boss), and with the fix it's dropped to 24mpg. Most of us seem to drive 15k or so miles a year, except for me apparently. So your annual fuel usage goes from 15000mi/25mpg = 600 gallons x $2.75/gal=$1650/yr in fuel, to 15000/24mpg = 625 gallons x $2.75/gal = $1,718.75/yr in fuel, or a difference of $68.75/yr in fuel costs. Throw the $14 a year in AdBlue that you save, and you are ahead $82.75 per year. If your second half payout is the lowest level, like mine, cause you have a busted old '13, you miss out on ~ $4200... or a 50.75 year payback made up in your superior fuel economy and 6.8 second 0-60. Even if the economy drops 10% (or 2.5mpg, costing you $183.33/yr at 15k miles/yr and $2.75 a gallon), you still make money taking the fix and would take 22.9 years to recoup.
Oh, and the dealer will return the vehicle (post-fix) with a full tank of fuel and a detailing. So if you really want to stick it to PCNA and VW, bring it in on E and get an extra $50 or so worth of benefit plus a clean car.
So, with that said, is anyone seriously considering not getting the update? I know I'm going out on a limb that the mpg and drivability changes will be reasonable (and I could be wrong), but if they got it through the court system, with THIS level of scrutiny on the whole affair, they can't just make up numbers and lie. No way the lawyers would allow it, and the court would approve it without some degree of evidence. Even if we're off by a factor of 2, you are talking a couple hundred bucks a year in exchange for no less than $4k. And if the car sucks, you can always sell it. The market isn't terrible on CDs and there is a lot of pent up demand out there.
But let's be talk turkey about the fix for a minute.
If a 1mpg drop is realistic, power is similar, and AdBlue usage increases, who really cares? Some of you guys clearly have undies that are too tight, but not most. I never drive in sport mode, and I've never noticed the braking on hills, so I don't put much value on those, but I could be unique.
Most people aren't driving at full throttle all the time, so you aren't making the full power of the car when you drive (a whopping 240hp at that). So are you really going to notice a 10hp drop (10 is just pulling a number out of the air) when you give it half throttle coming out of a light, just trying to edge out the weirdo in the Prius next to you but not trying kill your average economy at the same time?
As for AdBlue usage, who cares? Tractor Supply had 2.5 gallon AdBlue containers for $8 recently. Walmart has it for $12 all day long. With my driving I think I spend about $60/yr on AdBlue fluid, and we put on a lot of miles (25-30k/yr). That is going to maybe increase to $84 a year? Ouch.
So now, if we think it makes sense to forego the second half payment to preserve that precious power and economy, lets look at the math real quick. Say your avg economy is 25mpg (cause its a Porsche and you like to give it the beans every now and again to show that Prius who's boss), and with the fix it's dropped to 24mpg. Most of us seem to drive 15k or so miles a year, except for me apparently. So your annual fuel usage goes from 15000mi/25mpg = 600 gallons x $2.75/gal=$1650/yr in fuel, to 15000/24mpg = 625 gallons x $2.75/gal = $1,718.75/yr in fuel, or a difference of $68.75/yr in fuel costs. Throw the $14 a year in AdBlue that you save, and you are ahead $82.75 per year. If your second half payout is the lowest level, like mine, cause you have a busted old '13, you miss out on ~ $4200... or a 50.75 year payback made up in your superior fuel economy and 6.8 second 0-60. Even if the economy drops 10% (or 2.5mpg, costing you $183.33/yr at 15k miles/yr and $2.75 a gallon), you still make money taking the fix and would take 22.9 years to recoup.
Oh, and the dealer will return the vehicle (post-fix) with a full tank of fuel and a detailing. So if you really want to stick it to PCNA and VW, bring it in on E and get an extra $50 or so worth of benefit plus a clean car.
So, with that said, is anyone seriously considering not getting the update? I know I'm going out on a limb that the mpg and drivability changes will be reasonable (and I could be wrong), but if they got it through the court system, with THIS level of scrutiny on the whole affair, they can't just make up numbers and lie. No way the lawyers would allow it, and the court would approve it without some degree of evidence. Even if we're off by a factor of 2, you are talking a couple hundred bucks a year in exchange for no less than $4k. And if the car sucks, you can always sell it. The market isn't terrible on CDs and there is a lot of pent up demand out there.
10-27-2017 | 12:43 PM
#4324
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 171
Likes: 6
From: Portland, OR
The CD is an incredible vehicle. To remove, reduce or change some of these big features is a bummer. No other way to slice it.
Booch, maybe you don't drive in inclement weather. Some of us do. Engine braking matters. Now maybe I'm making a mountain out of a mole hill, and maybe the reduced engine braking isn't nearly that much. Maybe not? It still matters.
Last I checked, it's ok to be miffed about this fix.
But again, time will tell.
I think I speak for many of us here; we're anxious to hear how the fix changes your CD, if at all.
10-27-2017 | 12:45 PM
#4325
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,695
Likes: 134
Our best mileage was 802 miles on a tank (CT to Syracuse and back, low 70s highway speeds). 31.5mpg hand calculated. It's a pretty flat ride, but maybe its the mileage though... we have 111k miles on our '13 and we made this run at about 105k. Most of the time, though, we fill up in the low 600s unless I'm towing (which nets about 14mpg or so with a 24x8.5 enclosed trailer and about 7k lbs behind the CD).
But let's be talk turkey about the fix for a minute.
If a 1mpg drop is realistic, power is similar, and AdBlue usage increases, who really cares? Some of you guys clearly have undies that are too tight, but not most. I never drive in sport mode, and I've never noticed the braking on hills, so I don't put much value on those, but I could be unique.
Most people aren't driving at full throttle all the time, so you aren't making the full power of the car when you drive (a whopping 240hp at that). So are you really going to notice a 10hp drop (10 is just pulling a number out of the air) when you give it half throttle coming out of a light, just trying to edge out the weirdo in the Prius next to you but not trying kill your average economy at the same time?
As for AdBlue usage, who cares? Tractor Supply had 2.5 gallon AdBlue containers for $8 recently. Walmart has it for $12 all day long. With my driving I think I spend about $60/yr on AdBlue fluid, and we put on a lot of miles (25-30k/yr). That is going to maybe increase to $84 a year? Ouch.
So now, if we think it makes sense to forego the second half payment to preserve that precious power and economy, lets look at the math real quick. Say your avg economy is 25mpg (cause its a Porsche and you like to give it the beans every now and again to show that Prius who's boss), and with the fix it's dropped to 24mpg. Most of us seem to drive 15k or so miles a year, except for me apparently. So your annual fuel usage goes from 15000mi/25mpg = 600 gallons x $2.75/gal=$1650/yr in fuel, to 15000/24mpg = 625 gallons x $2.75/gal = $1,718.75/yr in fuel, or a difference of $68.75/yr in fuel costs. Throw the $14 a year in AdBlue that you save, and you are ahead $82.75 per year. If your second half payout is the lowest level, like mine, cause you have a busted old '13, you miss out on ~ $4200... or a 50.75 year payback made up in your superior fuel economy and 6.8 second 0-60. Even if the economy drops 10% (or 2.5mpg, costing you $183.33/yr at 15k miles/yr and $2.75 a gallon), you still make money taking the fix and would take 22.9 years to recoup.
Oh, and the dealer will return the vehicle (post-fix) with a full tank of fuel and a detailing. So if you really want to stick it to PCNA and VW, bring it in on E and get an extra $50 or so worth of benefit plus a clean car.
So, with that said, is anyone seriously considering not getting the update? I know I'm going out on a limb that the mpg and drivability changes will be reasonable (and I could be wrong), but if they got it through the court system, with THIS level of scrutiny on the whole affair, they can't just make up numbers and lie. No way the lawyers would allow it, and the court would approve it without some degree of evidence. Even if we're off by a factor of 2, you are talking a couple hundred bucks a year in exchange for no less than $4k. And if the car sucks, you can always sell it. The market isn't terrible on CDs and there is a lot of pent up demand out there.
But let's be talk turkey about the fix for a minute.
If a 1mpg drop is realistic, power is similar, and AdBlue usage increases, who really cares? Some of you guys clearly have undies that are too tight, but not most. I never drive in sport mode, and I've never noticed the braking on hills, so I don't put much value on those, but I could be unique.
Most people aren't driving at full throttle all the time, so you aren't making the full power of the car when you drive (a whopping 240hp at that). So are you really going to notice a 10hp drop (10 is just pulling a number out of the air) when you give it half throttle coming out of a light, just trying to edge out the weirdo in the Prius next to you but not trying kill your average economy at the same time?
As for AdBlue usage, who cares? Tractor Supply had 2.5 gallon AdBlue containers for $8 recently. Walmart has it for $12 all day long. With my driving I think I spend about $60/yr on AdBlue fluid, and we put on a lot of miles (25-30k/yr). That is going to maybe increase to $84 a year? Ouch.
So now, if we think it makes sense to forego the second half payment to preserve that precious power and economy, lets look at the math real quick. Say your avg economy is 25mpg (cause its a Porsche and you like to give it the beans every now and again to show that Prius who's boss), and with the fix it's dropped to 24mpg. Most of us seem to drive 15k or so miles a year, except for me apparently. So your annual fuel usage goes from 15000mi/25mpg = 600 gallons x $2.75/gal=$1650/yr in fuel, to 15000/24mpg = 625 gallons x $2.75/gal = $1,718.75/yr in fuel, or a difference of $68.75/yr in fuel costs. Throw the $14 a year in AdBlue that you save, and you are ahead $82.75 per year. If your second half payout is the lowest level, like mine, cause you have a busted old '13, you miss out on ~ $4200... or a 50.75 year payback made up in your superior fuel economy and 6.8 second 0-60. Even if the economy drops 10% (or 2.5mpg, costing you $183.33/yr at 15k miles/yr and $2.75 a gallon), you still make money taking the fix and would take 22.9 years to recoup.
Oh, and the dealer will return the vehicle (post-fix) with a full tank of fuel and a detailing. So if you really want to stick it to PCNA and VW, bring it in on E and get an extra $50 or so worth of benefit plus a clean car.
So, with that said, is anyone seriously considering not getting the update? I know I'm going out on a limb that the mpg and drivability changes will be reasonable (and I could be wrong), but if they got it through the court system, with THIS level of scrutiny on the whole affair, they can't just make up numbers and lie. No way the lawyers would allow it, and the court would approve it without some degree of evidence. Even if we're off by a factor of 2, you are talking a couple hundred bucks a year in exchange for no less than $4k. And if the car sucks, you can always sell it. The market isn't terrible on CDs and there is a lot of pent up demand out there.
I'll take the fix too. Won't be the first in line, just to see how "bad" it is - but the 2.0 guys seem to love theirs.
I wasn't thinking of dramatically delaying taking it until PJ mentioned earlier about stalling to max out the warranty. I drive mine a lot... bought it with 36k not quite a year ago, and rolled over 61k today. In not quite two years I'll be over the factory 100k warranty... so if I hold out until then, and then take the fix, I'll essentially get any extra ~28k warranty (not quite the SAME warranty... but you know what I mean).
I'm sure I'll hold on to the CD for at least a few years. Extending the warranty out a little more would be nice... before it comes time to trade it in.
10-27-2017 | 01:18 PM
#4327
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,675
Likes: 55
From: Loganville (Atlanta) GA
For those of you who are relying on your car's computer to tell you the MPG, and are believing it, you're nuts. These cars are made by a bunch of cheaters. All of the figures are skewed, including your speed. Ever notice that your speedo shows faster than your GPS on your phone? Try it sometime... If you want to know what your fuel economy is, do yourself a favor, do the math when you fill up...
10-27-2017 | 02:41 PM
#4330
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 217
Likes: 38
From: CT
This.
The CD is an incredible vehicle. To remove, reduce or change some of these big features is a bummer. No other way to slice it.
Booch, maybe you don't drive in inclement weather. Some of us do. Engine braking matters. Now maybe I'm making a mountain out of a mole hill, and maybe the reduced engine braking isn't nearly that much. Maybe not? It still matters.
Last I checked, it's ok to be miffed about this fix.
But again, time will tell.
I think I speak for many of us here; we're anxious to hear how the fix changes your CD, if at all.
The CD is an incredible vehicle. To remove, reduce or change some of these big features is a bummer. No other way to slice it.
Booch, maybe you don't drive in inclement weather. Some of us do. Engine braking matters. Now maybe I'm making a mountain out of a mole hill, and maybe the reduced engine braking isn't nearly that much. Maybe not? It still matters.
Last I checked, it's ok to be miffed about this fix.
But again, time will tell.
I think I speak for many of us here; we're anxious to hear how the fix changes your CD, if at all.
My wife and I drive our CD year round in New England, and have since 1/1/13 when I picked it up from the dealer with 7 miles on it. Snow, rain, sun, towing my race car, hauling kids... you name it, the CD has seen it all for 111k miles and counting. FWIW I don't see it as being any better or worse in snow then my Cayenne GTS, so I can't say if the downhill braking does much. The GTS has much better brakes in general, but that doesn't matter so much in the snow. Hill descent control is the bomb, but they didn't say that was going away.
I'm not saying people can't be miffed, I'm just calling out the wailing and gnashing of teeth, for something, which, in the grand scheme of things, is not terrible. It's not like we got killed by an airbag, or cancer from coal dust in the HVAC system.
Yes, this is a great space for all of us to commiserate how we got bent over by VW, but I feel like we got the common courtesy of a reach around while VW was giving it to us, and that isn't so bad at the end of the day.
In other words, there are more important things to get worked up over, like why does the 911 get all the cool new models, and the Cayennes get the short end of the stick? That's something I can get behind harrumph-ing about
10-27-2017 | 02:42 PM
#4331
Banned
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,163
Likes: 114
From: Dusselheim
I'm not a stickler for "Prius" like mpg, but when I have a vehicle for a stated purpose and enjoyment factor changed for the worse (we can all agree on that), I have a problem. The dilemma is do I put up with reduced features, mpg, and power for a front ended payment? To me, its not worth it (certainly not now). If you want to be the Guinea pig fix wise, by all means do so. But it comes down to either being paid now or saving as the years roll.
Anyway, enjoy the change and hopefully you're made "whole."
Anyway, enjoy the change and hopefully you're made "whole."
10-27-2017 | 03:10 PM
#4332
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 8,947
Likes: 2,631
From: The Woodlands, TX.
Originally Posted by Bobcat Sig
This.
The CD is an incredible vehicle. To remove, reduce or change some of these big features is a bummer. No other way to slice it.
Booch, maybe you don't drive in inclement weather. Some of us do. Engine braking matters. Now maybe I'm making a mountain out of a mole hill, and maybe the reduced engine braking isn't nearly that much. Maybe not? It still matters.
Last I checked, it's ok to be miffed about this fix.
But again, time will tell.I think I speak for many of us here; we're anxious to hear how the fix changes your CD, if at all.
The CD is an incredible vehicle. To remove, reduce or change some of these big features is a bummer. No other way to slice it.
Booch, maybe you don't drive in inclement weather. Some of us do. Engine braking matters. Now maybe I'm making a mountain out of a mole hill, and maybe the reduced engine braking isn't nearly that much. Maybe not? It still matters.
Last I checked, it's ok to be miffed about this fix.
But again, time will tell.I think I speak for many of us here; we're anxious to hear how the fix changes your CD, if at all.
My interpretation.
10-27-2017 | 03:13 PM
#4333
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,913
Likes: 20
making the full power of the car when you drive (a whopping 240hp at that). So are you really going to notice a 10hp drop (10 is just pulling a number out of the air) when you give it half throttle coming out of a light, just trying to edge out the weirdo in the Prius next to you but not trying kill your average economy at the same time?
I didn't buy the CD for it's HP numbers. I bought it for the torque. Our peak torque is available "just off" idle between 1700 and 2700 RPM. All that low end torque (at least for the 958.1s) was only bested by the TT (and it's torque came in later) is what allows it to act like a much faster vehicle than it really is.
Someone correct me if I am remembering incorrectly, but as I recall the settlement actually allowed them to drop as much as 10% off the "power" before a buyback had to be discussed. Even at 5% you are still talking about 20 foot pounds which will be eminently noticeable when passing or pulling out in traffic. Should there be an actual power loss hidden by their careful wording we may need to completely relearn how the vehicle responds to input (and for those of us that are on year 5, that's a lot of muscle memory to unlearn...).
At the end of the day, it simply comes down to it not being what I bought and the compensation for what they are telling me that they are doing doesn't balance out for me.
As far as that equation, some have quoted the whole payout, but it should only be half. I got my first half ($3500 in my case) completely untied to the fix, so it is only $3500 they are offering me for the changes that the fix makes.
The equation is, of course, different for everyone, but that's not a big enough worm given the hook I can see. That's me though.
The last part is the trick that everyone is discussing. If you, for example, have a 2015 with it's warranty out to 2021 (assuming you won't hit miles) and you do the fix today then you are only covered through 2021 (e.g. the factor and fix warranties run out roughly the same time). If you instead wait until 2021 to get the fix, then your powertrain will be covered until 2025.
For me with a 2013 the extended warranty runs out next year so getting the fix done now would effectively make the fix warranty a 3 year coverage, but waiting until next year puts me out to 2022.
10-27-2017 | 03:24 PM
#4334
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,913
Likes: 20
The description in the doc references “enhanced automatic engine brakingâ€. To me, that means the car is automatically shifting the car down for you to contribute to engine braking. And you can still manually downshift the car if you want. I’ve noticed on longer grades in the mountains that the car will downshift automatically to apply engine braking. So my thought is that will go away.
My interpretation.
My interpretation.
Personally I use the engine braking all the time as I know where/when to lift off the gas to attain a desired speed with minimal (if any) braking being applied. There is one stop sign I go through every day in a 35mph zone. I know exactly where to lift so that I don't have to touch my brake until the last 10'. Just a lovely machine all around...
10-27-2017 | 03:28 PM
#4335
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,913
Likes: 20
So, with that said, is anyone seriously considering not getting the update? I know I'm going out on a limb that the mpg and drivability changes will be reasonable (and I could be wrong), but if they got it through the court system, with THIS level of scrutiny on the whole affair, they can't just make up numbers and lie. No way the lawyers would allow it, and the court would approve it without some degree of evidence. Even if we're off by a factor of 2, you are talking a couple hundred bucks a year in exchange for no less than $4k. And if the car sucks, you can always sell it. The market isn't terrible on CDs and there is a lot of pent up demand out there.
First of all, all VW had to do was please CARB/EPA with the changes with some very loose limits on consumer impact (e.g. 10% power/mpg IIRC). CARB/EPA certainly don't give a damn about drivability and performance, so expecting them to be looking out for us in that regard is just silly.
Secondly, the used market is hot right now because there is a limited supply and few of us want to let them go right now. If the fix turns out to neuter them A) they won't be as desirable and B) there will be more on the market as people try to dump them.