docdent

We will probably end up getting shafted. The "fix" will probably decrease MPG and HP while increasing adblue consumption. VW/PCNA will probably not give any compensation (other than extended warranty).

skiahh

Am, they won't. Since they're taking about a fix, there likely won't be a buyback option for us. Looks like the only 3.0l buybacks will be the older, pre-Cayenne, vehicles.

But agree on the compensation. Enough to cover depreciation and the hassle for the past year and for their stupidity.

SignDoc

Maybe I am one of the few, but I feel that a buyback has to be an option. The Judge has said all along there has to be a choice and he said the 3.0l claims are just as valid as the 2.0l claims. And this from the lead class attorney, in response to the reported settlement:

"Any settlement on the 3.0L diesel front would have to be approved by US District Judge Charles Breyer, and lead plaintiffs’ attorney Elizabeth Cabraser cautioned in a statement that a settlement had not definitely been reached. “Any resolution must grant these consumers similar benefits—including a choice between a buyback or a fix if approved by regulators—as were offered to class members in the 2.0-liter vehicle litigation… We will continue to pursue a fair resolution on their behalf.”

I think Porsche owners are too smart to get walked all over, they will opt out and pursue their claims outside the class. I certainly will.

skiahh

I don't disagree, but as with most "defects", the manufacturer has the opportunity to make it right before having to offer a refund (buyback). I think that will apply here if - and it's a big if - the fix they develop rectifies the flaw with no negative impact to performance and efficiency. I'm not an attorney, but I think that's pretty well established business law.

The compensation amount will, probably, be either the saving grace or breaking point for many. If they just throw a fix and nothing else or some small token compensation, most of us will opt out of the class and retain independent attorneys. Neither VW nor the CA court wants that. VW because it will cost them more and the CA court because it means they failed the people they are supposed to be protecting.

I think if anyone opts out simply because they want a buyback, they will lose badly. If I'm right about basic business law and an manufacturer's right to fix something, then success in the courts to force a buyback when a valid fix has been demonstrated and accepted exists will be, at best, unlikely. And if you are able to force a settlement, your lawyer will take a huge chunk of it and you will be out the car (you've forced the buyback) and will have less than you would had you kept the car and a reasonable class settlement.

Putting blinders on because you're pissed (we all are) only serves VW and the lawyers. Taking a binary approach - buyback or I'll opt out and sue - is a big set of blinders.

gnat

What happens to all the unsold vehicles is a big part of the equation which hasn't been talked about/considered much in our discussions until now.

I wish we had numbers, but those vehicles represent a big snag for anyone not intending to keep their's long term (at least a couple more years) assuming an acceptable fix. They have the potential to flood the market and significantly reduce the value of real used vehicles. The dealers will of course want to get as much as possible for them, but selling 2015/2016 vehicles in early 2017 for new prices just won't fly (they may be able to hook a few suckers, but not enough to drain their inventory quickly). Couple that with the lingering fear/distrust of the average buyer and they'll have to cut the prices further.

Then of course existing owners will be faced with the "Why shouldn't I pay 10k more for one with 0 miles?" argument and will likely have to lower their prices.

I think that will settle out once stock is depleted, but that will take a few months at least and probably another 6-8 months for the market to re-stabilize.

The 2.0s didn't really have to face that as A) they were given the buyback option and B) the belief is that most of the unsold/returned cars will be scrapped rather than fixed.

I don't know about that. We have GT3s that catch on fire, 911s that trash their motors with no warning, Turbo 911s and GT3s that like to dump their coolant in the middle of the track, Cayennes that like to dump their coolant under normal driving, and the list goes on. Yet we keep buying them

In my experience we Porsche owners are the biggest kool-aid drinkers this side of Ferrari owners

gnat

My laymen's understanding is similar to yours (e.g. as long as they can show that the wrong has been righted and generally accepted it will make any case more difficult).

While I agree with you that the lawyers are the ones winning here no matter what, in a singular suit you can tack your costs for the lawsuit onto the settlement. So you could potentially come out better than the 2.0 owners depending on how good your lawyer is and how much VW just wants to just get it behind them.

Your best hope, I think, is for VW to agree to a settlement before it gets to court.

Another wrinkle is that I believe that if there are enough such plaintiffs, I believe (but could be very wrong) that VW has the ability to move for them to be moved into a single class rather than deal with them one on one.

skiahh

Yes, but if you opt out of a class to pursue an individual case, can you be opted back into a new one?

And you can tack on legal expenses, sure... if you win. But if the case is dismissed as insufficient because they've provided an acceptable remedy, you won't win and therefore can't recover legal fees.

gnat

As far as I know, yes as it would be a different class. You can of course opt out again, but then you start all over again. Not an expert though, so I could be wrong.

Yes the assumption is that you win and the judge/settlement is good to you. I was just saying that you have the potential to come out ahead as your legal fees can be recouped. You are correct that if you lose then you will be much worse off than everyone else that accepted the original deal.

alexaqui

Agree with that. My buddy with his 911 Turbo who had his coolant pipes fixed byt the dealer already once is in denial that it will happen again (he does 12-16 track days per year). I have seen far too much of this attitude, usually with the car behind the GT3/Turbo going into a wall at that owner's expense. Porsche owners can be a bit stuck up and snotty.

As long as Porsche makes a product people want, then they'll get away with treating a small niche however they wish. That being said, I have already spoken with my money and opted out of a p-car. While this wasn't the main decision factor, it certainly was part of it!

Needsdecaf

When is the next update due again?

RS-America

Visited a Land Rover dealer to see what they were offering to replace my CD. Surprised to find out that there entire line-up is/will be available as a diesel - to include the coming release of the new Defender. Glad that we will still be able to get diesel SUVs in North America. 440 lb-ft torque at 1,750 RPM - 22 city mpg, 29 Hwy mpg, 25 combined mpg. Towing 7,716 lbs.
That said we hope to be able to keep our CD with all of its torque, mpg range, and towing. Those are the principle reasons we purchased this SUV, not any potential savings for fuel cost.

skiahh

Thursday, isn't it?

visitador

Wedneday morning at 8am pacific is the next status conference, and most likely the preliminary approval of 3.0 settlement, whatever that is.

Needsdecaf

Just went online to check something and found a few more documents have been filed. This one in particular was interesting since I deal with liens too often, unfortunately:

http://www.cand.uscourts.gov/filelib...neys-Liens.pdf

Basically orders VW to ignore any liens placed on behalf of attorneys on the payouts, and to pay the class members. Also further prohibits the state court from processing lien claims related to the case, and outlines that any attorney seeking to be paid for services rendered to a claimnant needs to provide written documentation to the court substantiating it by the end of November.

More to the point, the judge's tone and attitude are reflected here and it is interesting.

Needsdecaf

The last transcript says December 1.