The Bad News piles up about the new Turbo
11-03-2009 | 09:35 AM
#76
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On paper the new motor is an awesome spec: High 9.8:1 CR, 3.8 litre, better VTGs, DFI linked to the PDK, it has to be a better drive than the outgoing one - noone is questioning that.........
11-03-2009 | 10:38 AM
#77
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From my perspective I look at these cars as platforms to build on. The 997.1 turbo was a great platform but not perfect. Many if not most of us have modded them to suit our driving styles and purposes. Porsche has now done the same, albeit I think my mods are better than theirs. Is their new stock version better than the original stock 997.1? Sure, but I don't see it as an upgrade to my personal version of the 997.1.
Sometimes manufacturers need to artificially make distinctionsand claims to drive up sales. Case in point, I just remodeled my home theater. I decided to use the 2009 version of the JVC projector rather than their 2010 version. The specs all said the 2010 was improved, but reports from owners who upgraded from the 2009 to 2010 suggest that real world picture quality is not any noticeably different, despite a ~50% price increase.
Sometimes manufacturers need to artificially make distinctionsand claims to drive up sales. Case in point, I just remodeled my home theater. I decided to use the 2009 version of the JVC projector rather than their 2010 version. The specs all said the 2010 was improved, but reports from owners who upgraded from the 2009 to 2010 suggest that real world picture quality is not any noticeably different, despite a ~50% price increase.
11-03-2009 | 11:51 AM
#78
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To you they maybe meaningless.I go the the drags not the grocery store and 1/8mile times 1/4mile times do mean something and is the real world for what I use the car for.
I take the motorcycle to the drags also and being in a car going 0-60mph in 3 seconds is nothing like holding on to a bike going 0-60 under 3 seconds so even those times are alittle boring,I would want more horsepower if they would make it!
I take the motorcycle to the drags also and being in a car going 0-60mph in 3 seconds is nothing like holding on to a bike going 0-60 under 3 seconds so even those times are alittle boring,I would want more horsepower if they would make it!
11-03-2009 | 12:10 PM
#79
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From: London, UK
I think a motoring magazine should do a comparison of a 997.2 Turbo with an array of modified 997.1 Turbos (Stage II+ engine with upgraded suspension) and then see what's what!
I'd personally give the stock 997.1 Turbo a 7/10 rating, with mods this can easily go to 10/10. So if the new car is an 8/10 but can't be modified very much then new owners are seriously missing out.
It's pointless comparing the new one with the stock old one anyway as Porsche wouldn't release a new model that is slower or handles worse than it's predecessor. D'uh!
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Last edited by Alex (UK); 11-03-2009 at 12:39 PM.
11-03-2009 | 12:44 PM
#80
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From: Los Angeles, CA
Mike, I have read your article and thoroughly enjoyed your review of the new 997.5TT. It does however just re-inforce what we would have expected from Porsche. The new car is faster, handles better and is more fuel efficient and all of this is great, albeit, a measured evolution. As expected, it is a better car and nobody would really debate this point from a performance perspective. However, these new technologies including PDK coupled to a 500hp M64 would probably have just yielded the same results in any case.
The argument here is more to do with whether the new engine will be as reliable as the old. Regretfully no number of test drives or thick Porsche technical manuals can provide the answer- only time can.
If you like to turn over your vehicles, the new TT will be just fine as its will be gone by the time warranty is up. If you like to hold onto cars for the long term as many (including yourself presumably- 930) do, then the new engine will be a concern until time proves its longevity and reliability. Porsche could certainly help overcome these concerns about reliability by developing and using it in their motorsport division if it is as good as they claim.... This is how its predecesor got it reputation after all, not just because Porsche said so....
The argument here is more to do with whether the new engine will be as reliable as the old. Regretfully no number of test drives or thick Porsche technical manuals can provide the answer- only time can.
If you like to turn over your vehicles, the new TT will be just fine as its will be gone by the time warranty is up. If you like to hold onto cars for the long term as many (including yourself presumably- 930) do, then the new engine will be a concern until time proves its longevity and reliability. Porsche could certainly help overcome these concerns about reliability by developing and using it in their motorsport division if it is as good as they claim.... This is how its predecesor got it reputation after all, not just because Porsche said so....
Comparing manual transmission variants, nearly everyone (including myself) would be hard-pressed to tell any difference in the engine power between the 997TT and 997.5TT -- absolutely no need to sell and upgrade. However, the PDK is a huge leap over the previous automatic (and the reason for the big jump in acceleration times), and the engine's fuel efficiency/emissions has been improved quite a bit (as if TT owners care). We are all holding our breath regarding reliability...
- Mike
11-03-2009 | 05:14 PM
#82
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2008
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From: NY
and 500hp isn't alot in 3500lb could always use more!
Normally aspirated GT3-RS putting out 450hp and alittle over 3000lbs would think being the 997TT top of the line and is a twin turbo they would of really updated the car to 550hp as some guys were also complaining its about time they do that.
Even new Cadillac CTS-V puts out 550+ horsepower
and thats only a car to get groceries
Last edited by inactiveuser1; 11-03-2009 at 05:31 PM.
11-05-2009 | 11:04 PM
#83
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2006
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From: Clifton, NJ
Obviously it would seem that it needs to be spelt out for you genius so here it goes... For 40+ years Porsche have given us incremental increases in power and subsequently in performance... Did you really expect differently this time regardless of the engine being used?? How would they sell the new car if it went slower?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YN7v6edJug
The link above is an example of what an M64 can be tuned to do- 0-300km/h in 18.1sec.... Try keeping up in a 2010 TT or corvette pos for that matter... Better yet, try tuning a new TT to these levels... Then come back and talk something other than the marketing **** they want you to believe.... Ever stopped to wonder why these new engines still aren't in the motorsport cars if they SO MUCH BETTER. They just released a new cup car. It ain't got one
Yet these engines are good enough for some test rig devised by Porsche to show us how good they are. Why simulate the track when you can just go to the track and run endless laps to prove the point like in a race car?
Personally, I envy those who got their hands on the last of the 997.1TT. My opinion will only change when the new engine has been around for a few years out of warranty and is still running without incident for its owners... Proof will be in the pudding. Enjoy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YN7v6edJug
The link above is an example of what an M64 can be tuned to do- 0-300km/h in 18.1sec.... Try keeping up in a 2010 TT or corvette pos for that matter... Better yet, try tuning a new TT to these levels... Then come back and talk something other than the marketing **** they want you to believe.... Ever stopped to wonder why these new engines still aren't in the motorsport cars if they SO MUCH BETTER. They just released a new cup car. It ain't got one
Yet these engines are good enough for some test rig devised by Porsche to show us how good they are. Why simulate the track when you can just go to the track and run endless laps to prove the point like in a race car?Personally, I envy those who got their hands on the last of the 997.1TT. My opinion will only change when the new engine has been around for a few years out of warranty and is still running without incident for its owners... Proof will be in the pudding. Enjoy
Not disputing the abilities of other manufacturers M928. Simply pointing out that you can take a 3.6lt M64 motor, double its power output and still have a reliable car that goes. As pointed out by a fellow poster, all sorts of rumours about reliability issues are doing the rounds from internal sources, just in tuning this new DFI motor further for GT2 models. Whilst we don't know how true this is, the suggestions alone aren't doing the new motor any favors...
Sure, others run 8sec 1/4 miles etc but they don't also have top speeds well in excess of 300km/h- gearing helps them achieve one and lets them down with the other. And furthermore, they are usually doing it with 8 or 10 cylinders and 7+ ltrs of capacity....
Sure, others run 8sec 1/4 miles etc but they don't also have top speeds well in excess of 300km/h- gearing helps them achieve one and lets them down with the other. And furthermore, they are usually doing it with 8 or 10 cylinders and 7+ ltrs of capacity....
Oh, and maybe you should stick to other things, because your knowledge of drag racing is scarily bad. Many drag cars run 165mph in the quarter mile. Even with their current gearing, I don't have any doubts that a few hundred extra rpm would get them well above 300kph.
Oh, and they may be using 8 or 10 cylinders and 7 liters, but the Porsche is using probably 30-35 lbs of boost, and its still far far far slower.
11-06-2009 | 10:26 AM
#84
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From: Regretfully not at a track... :(
Give me a break. So a M64 thats been completely reworked can make 1000bhp. Cool. I'm sure the 9A1 could do the same with new rods, pistons, hardware, etc. Do you realize how much effort and money is required to get an M64 to 1000bhp.
Oh, and maybe you should stick to other things, because your knowledge of drag racing is scarily bad. Many drag cars run 165mph in the quarter mile. Even with their current gearing, I don't have any doubts that a few hundred extra rpm would get them well above 300kph.
Oh, and they may be using 8 or 10 cylinders and 7 liters, but the Porsche is using probably 30-35 lbs of boost, and its still far far far slower.
Oh, and maybe you should stick to other things, because your knowledge of drag racing is scarily bad. Many drag cars run 165mph in the quarter mile. Even with their current gearing, I don't have any doubts that a few hundred extra rpm would get them well above 300kph.
Oh, and they may be using 8 or 10 cylinders and 7 liters, but the Porsche is using probably 30-35 lbs of boost, and its still far far far slower.
Secondly, didn't realise cost & effort had been dragged into the equation. But since you ask, how much time and effort does it take to get a funny car down a drag strip for a couple runs before it is stripped down and rebuilt. Who cares? Those that choose to go down the path don't care. The fact is that the engine is versatile enough to achieve 1000hp, produce great acceleration and remain a driveable on both track/street.
I don't know everything about drag racing? Sure, but did I claim I did? My point is that the 950hp RS in the clip can pull great acceleration times and yet function on a track because its acceleration is due to power and not due to gearing. There are a couple other vids of that car in full flight and it performs like a track car, not a strip car in terms of drivability. Maybe it would help if I clarified my statement to usable speed above 300km/h as drag cars can achieve speeds for 2-3sec down a 400m strip...whoopy!
My mate has a 351cc ford drag car that pulls 9s but we are half deaf and it is overheating on any cruise on the highway because its doing 4300rpm @ 110km/h due to gearing optimised for the 1/4 mile strip. Sure, it redlines at over 9k on a drag strip for 2-3sec but do same on a highway drive and you'll be collecting your motor off the highway.
Far, far slower.... give me a break. The car on vid has acceleration matching the Bugatti Veyron and like the Veyron it is claimed to be streetable and great on track, not a 7sec strip wonder...You're comparing apples and oranges. You seem to know your stuff so well that you're comparing a track car to drag racers and claiming its slower... No **** einstein. But lets see your drag cars complete a lap of ANY circuit.... What are you comparing the slow M64 too? Enlighten us...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ffYokJgg5s&feature=fvw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jf8aA...eature=related and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Vmj0...eature=related >>> Yes slow, 9.5sec 1/4 from a track car (yes,that is one that is designed to round corners and speed limited to 350km/h)...
Last edited by 911rox; 11-06-2009 at 11:04 AM.
11-06-2009 | 02:51 PM
#86
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It is like they say... when you look at a plate with eggs and bacon you know that the chicken is involved but the pig is committed...
When Porsche starts using the new engine for all their racing programs, then we can say they are committed to bring the new engine to the same levels as they did with the M64...
When Porsche starts using the new engine for all their racing programs, then we can say they are committed to bring the new engine to the same levels as they did with the M64...
11-06-2009 | 03:45 PM
#87
Drifting
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From: Belmont Shore in Long Beach CA
It is like they say... when you look at a plate with eggs and bacon you know that the chicken is involved but the pig is committed...
When Porsche starts using the new engine for all their racing programs, then we can say they are committed to bring the new engine to the same levels as they did with the M64...
When Porsche starts using the new engine for all their racing programs, then we can say they are committed to bring the new engine to the same levels as they did with the M64...
11-06-2009 | 07:08 PM
#88
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From: Regretfully not at a track... :(
It is like they say... when you look at a plate with eggs and bacon you know that the chicken is involved but the pig is committed...
When Porsche starts using the new engine for all their racing programs, then we can say they are committed to bring the new engine to the same levels as they did with the M64...
When Porsche starts using the new engine for all their racing programs, then we can say they are committed to bring the new engine to the same levels as they did with the M64...
11-06-2009 | 09:00 PM
#89
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From: Southern NJ & Coast
Guys, I totally agree about the merits of the race-tested GT1 block over the 9A1 block - I am ordering the 2010 GT3 bec/ of same.
That said the latest Excellence, not a mag that is prone to hyperbole IMHO, just gave the new car a singing review.
Time will tell about the new block for sure. But re the suspension, set up, differentials, DME, tranny, etc., the new one seems to have got it going on, so to speak...
That said the latest Excellence, not a mag that is prone to hyperbole IMHO, just gave the new car a singing review.
Time will tell about the new block for sure. But re the suspension, set up, differentials, DME, tranny, etc., the new one seems to have got it going on, so to speak...
11-06-2009 | 10:00 PM
#90
Former Vendor
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Well I can not say that I do not want one, because I certainly do. The new 911 turbo is absolutely the finest automobile made today as far as I am concerned, and I would recommend getting it in the PDK, which might surprise some people. I like the fact that the new turbo will finally have paddle shift. However, should you decide to get one in the more traditional 6 speed manual transmission, then I recommend being gentle with the gearbox. Do not try to keep up with the PDK stats as this will only show the weakness of the manual gearbox, and cost you several thousand dollars to fix.
However if you do decide to try to beat the stats and do indeed blow up your gearbox, please do give me a call, we are one of the only shops that can actually work on one of these.
Warmest Regards,
Erik Johnson
GBox Sales Manager
(303) 440-8899 work
(303) 895-4828 cell
However if you do decide to try to beat the stats and do indeed blow up your gearbox, please do give me a call, we are one of the only shops that can actually work on one of these.
Warmest Regards,
Erik Johnson
GBox Sales Manager
(303) 440-8899 work
(303) 895-4828 cell