Why buy 6 speed when Tip is faster?
07-02-2006, 01:35 AM
#1
Menace to Society
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Why buy 6 speed when Tip is faster?
The Tip is faster 0-60 (3.4 vs 3.7) and has the same top speed.
So why get a 6 speed?
Will the 6sp be faster around the track?
So why get a 6 speed?
Will the 6sp be faster around the track?
07-02-2006, 04:13 AM
#2
Some will say that speed is not important, they're both quite fast and the tip is not "engaging" like the manual.
My point of view is that people who buy this car are looking for maximum perofrmance. If you are looking for max performance you will buy the tip. It's already known to be faster from 0 - 60, 50 -75, 0 -100 etc. It will almost certainly be faster around the track. If, on the other hand, it turns out to be slower around the track than the manual AND you are going to track your car then get the manual.
People who can't accept the propostion that a "sports car" can have an automatic transmission will never be convinced to get a tip. To me a manual clutch is an anarchronism and is totally unecessary. The clutch should have been electronic from the beginning.
My point of view is that people who buy this car are looking for maximum perofrmance. If you are looking for max performance you will buy the tip. It's already known to be faster from 0 - 60, 50 -75, 0 -100 etc. It will almost certainly be faster around the track. If, on the other hand, it turns out to be slower around the track than the manual AND you are going to track your car then get the manual.
People who can't accept the propostion that a "sports car" can have an automatic transmission will never be convinced to get a tip. To me a manual clutch is an anarchronism and is totally unecessary. The clutch should have been electronic from the beginning.
07-02-2006, 05:49 AM
#3
Track Day
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as an alternate opinion..i believe the manual is faster round a track,io seem to recall Walter Rohrl saying so.
However much faster the tiptronic is..and it will always be easier to be faster in a tiptronic ..a sports car needs a manual transmission for the maximum driver enjoyment.Tiptronics,and sequential gearboxes reduce the amount of driver input in the car,you are removing a critical piece of interaction between car and driver.I personally can drive faster in a manual because i feel fully in control of the car ,and not at the whim of a computer.I have run through the type of gearboxes the last 12 months with a 996tt manual,AMG SL55 Automatic,997S MAnual ,and BMW M6 with SMG.
There is no right or wrong just personal preference and depends on where you do most of your driving.
However much faster the tiptronic is..and it will always be easier to be faster in a tiptronic ..a sports car needs a manual transmission for the maximum driver enjoyment.Tiptronics,and sequential gearboxes reduce the amount of driver input in the car,you are removing a critical piece of interaction between car and driver.I personally can drive faster in a manual because i feel fully in control of the car ,and not at the whim of a computer.I have run through the type of gearboxes the last 12 months with a 996tt manual,AMG SL55 Automatic,997S MAnual ,and BMW M6 with SMG.
There is no right or wrong just personal preference and depends on where you do most of your driving.
07-02-2006, 05:57 AM
#4
Drifting
Boolala,
ummm, first, nice big word, anarchronism... Had to look it up. "a person or practice that belongs to an earlier time"
Then I realized you spelled it wrong. So that makes two mistakes on your last post.
I am willing to bet, you are not a track guy. You've probably never been to racing school, ala: Skip Barber, Bondurant, etc.. -- I would further say that you have probably never heard the term:
Double Clutch-Heel-n-toe downshifting while Threshold braking. Or have driven a sequential gearbox in addition to a H box. Or done any left foot braking while throttle blipping.
For those of us in the "know" any Tip or Auto, even SMG, is for the dentist/boulevard cruisers. (Or for very high end race cars where every tenth of a second counts.) -- But for the true driving enthusiast, you can't beat a manual clutch. -- Saying that a clutch is a thing of the past is equivalent to saying, "why would I turn off Porsche Stability Management, I want the car to do the thinking for me." Why buy a $140K car that drives itself? Save your money, there's a Maybach in your future.
I have no doubt the TIP is faster. But so is a Corvette Z06 and it's half the price. If you don't want to sit in traffic with a manual, fine that's your option. But to claim that a clutch is an out of date tool is like saying, who needs a sail boat when you can buy an OUTBOARD...
or, who needs a bicycle when you can buy a motorcycle. It's about the connection between man and machine.
But some people just don't get it...
B
ummm, first, nice big word, anarchronism... Had to look it up. "a person or practice that belongs to an earlier time"
Then I realized you spelled it wrong. So that makes two mistakes on your last post.
I am willing to bet, you are not a track guy. You've probably never been to racing school, ala: Skip Barber, Bondurant, etc.. -- I would further say that you have probably never heard the term:
Double Clutch-Heel-n-toe downshifting while Threshold braking. Or have driven a sequential gearbox in addition to a H box. Or done any left foot braking while throttle blipping.
For those of us in the "know" any Tip or Auto, even SMG, is for the dentist/boulevard cruisers. (Or for very high end race cars where every tenth of a second counts.) -- But for the true driving enthusiast, you can't beat a manual clutch. -- Saying that a clutch is a thing of the past is equivalent to saying, "why would I turn off Porsche Stability Management, I want the car to do the thinking for me." Why buy a $140K car that drives itself? Save your money, there's a Maybach in your future.
I have no doubt the TIP is faster. But so is a Corvette Z06 and it's half the price. If you don't want to sit in traffic with a manual, fine that's your option. But to claim that a clutch is an out of date tool is like saying, who needs a sail boat when you can buy an OUTBOARD...
or, who needs a bicycle when you can buy a motorcycle. It's about the connection between man and machine.
But some people just don't get it...
B
07-02-2006, 10:07 AM
#6
Racer
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I think the 6 speed is more fun as well. More car /driver interaction. Now if the 997TT had the paddle shifters and an F1 Trans like the F430, it would be a harder decision for me. The Tip on the steering wheel to me is just not that exciting.
07-02-2006, 04:27 PM
#7
Rennlist Member
I also got the 6S because 98% of the time, I'm not going to be wringing every ounce of speed out of the car. I'll just be enjoying the ride in normal transport mode. In that situation, I LIKE the shifting, the connection to the car as they say. Like our President, I will be the decider of when the gears change.
This new Tip S is quite possibly a great step forward in sports driving, as has been declared by others on this and other boards. The speed difference is unimportant to me. I bought the car to have fun, to sometimes drive it fast (but maybe not as fast as it can possibly go, just like 99.99% of Turbo drivers) and enjoy it equally as well when not driving like a maniac. To me, that means manual shifter.
Tip or 6S is really a matter of personal preference and the intended driving style of the owner.
This new Tip S is quite possibly a great step forward in sports driving, as has been declared by others on this and other boards. The speed difference is unimportant to me. I bought the car to have fun, to sometimes drive it fast (but maybe not as fast as it can possibly go, just like 99.99% of Turbo drivers) and enjoy it equally as well when not driving like a maniac. To me, that means manual shifter.
Tip or 6S is really a matter of personal preference and the intended driving style of the owner.
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07-02-2006, 06:34 PM
#8
Burning Brakes
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Originally Posted by Ken89911T
I also got the 6S because 98% of the time, I'm not going to be wringing every ounce of speed out of the car. I'll just be enjoying the ride in normal transport mode. In that situation, I LIKE the shifting, the connection to the car as they say. Like our President, I will be the decider of when the gears change.
This new Tip S is quite possibly a great step forward in sports driving, as has been declared by others on this and other boards. The speed difference is unimportant to me. I bought the car to have fun, to sometimes drive it fast (but maybe not as fast as it can possibly go, just like 99.99% of Turbo drivers) and enjoy it equally as well when not driving like a maniac. To me, that means manual shifter.
Tip or 6S is really a matter of personal preference and the intended driving style of the owner.
This new Tip S is quite possibly a great step forward in sports driving, as has been declared by others on this and other boards. The speed difference is unimportant to me. I bought the car to have fun, to sometimes drive it fast (but maybe not as fast as it can possibly go, just like 99.99% of Turbo drivers) and enjoy it equally as well when not driving like a maniac. To me, that means manual shifter.
Tip or 6S is really a matter of personal preference and the intended driving style of the owner.
07-02-2006, 08:00 PM
#10
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by B-Line
Boolala,
ummm, first, nice big word, anarchronism... Had to look it up. "a person or practice that belongs to an earlier time"
Then I realized you spelled it wrong. So that makes two mistakes on your last post.
I am willing to bet, you are not a track guy. You've probably never been to racing school, ala: Skip Barber, Bondurant, etc.. -- I would further say that you have probably never heard the term:
Double Clutch-Heel-n-toe downshifting while Threshold braking. Or have driven a sequential gearbox in addition to a H box. Or done any left foot braking while throttle blipping.
For those of us in the "know" any Tip or Auto, even SMG, is for the dentist/boulevard cruisers. (Or for very high end race cars where every tenth of a second counts.) -- But for the true driving enthusiast, you can't beat a manual clutch. -- Saying that a clutch is a thing of the past is equivalent to saying, "why would I turn off Porsche Stability Management, I want the car to do the thinking for me." Why buy a $140K car that drives itself? Save your money, there's a Maybach in your future.
I have no doubt the TIP is faster. But so is a Corvette Z06 and it's half the price. If you don't want to sit in traffic with a manual, fine that's your option. But to claim that a clutch is an out of date tool is like saying, who needs a sail boat when you can buy an OUTBOARD...
or, who needs a bicycle when you can buy a motorcycle. It's about the connection between man and machine.
But some people just don't get it...
B
ummm, first, nice big word, anarchronism... Had to look it up. "a person or practice that belongs to an earlier time"
Then I realized you spelled it wrong. So that makes two mistakes on your last post.
I am willing to bet, you are not a track guy. You've probably never been to racing school, ala: Skip Barber, Bondurant, etc.. -- I would further say that you have probably never heard the term:
Double Clutch-Heel-n-toe downshifting while Threshold braking. Or have driven a sequential gearbox in addition to a H box. Or done any left foot braking while throttle blipping.
For those of us in the "know" any Tip or Auto, even SMG, is for the dentist/boulevard cruisers. (Or for very high end race cars where every tenth of a second counts.) -- But for the true driving enthusiast, you can't beat a manual clutch. -- Saying that a clutch is a thing of the past is equivalent to saying, "why would I turn off Porsche Stability Management, I want the car to do the thinking for me." Why buy a $140K car that drives itself? Save your money, there's a Maybach in your future.
I have no doubt the TIP is faster. But so is a Corvette Z06 and it's half the price. If you don't want to sit in traffic with a manual, fine that's your option. But to claim that a clutch is an out of date tool is like saying, who needs a sail boat when you can buy an OUTBOARD...
or, who needs a bicycle when you can buy a motorcycle. It's about the connection between man and machine.
But some people just don't get it...
B
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07-02-2006, 08:48 PM
#11
And if you get a 6 speed get the sport shifter
the 6 speed manual 997tt with sport shifter is as sweet a ride as I've ever experienced. With 700 miles on my black 997tt, the engine, transmission, exhaust are just beginning to "loosen up" a little and the car is becoming so fluid to drive - it's even beginning to sound less like a Hoover and more like a Porsche. I'm in love 
07-03-2006, 01:00 AM
#15
Pro
This is an interesting article, and don't forget to read the rebuttles as well.
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=1184
Now I am a fan of manual transmissions, but to a certain degree I also do think that the manual transmission is 'archaic'. As time continues, progressive improvements in automatic transmissions will continue, and reach a point where the visceral feel of manuals will be matched along with all the benifits, thus 'eliminating' the need for manuals completely, and apart from nostalgic reasons there will be no benefit. The current tiptronic is really the 1st steps towards this change otherwise why would this car manufacturer invest money in R& D for change (ie DRG) unless they truely felt that was the future? Similarly one could argue that maybe one needs to re-learn how to drive (the tiptronic) in order to exploit it most effectively. Tradition dictates to a certain degree our likes and dislikes and anything that differs from tradition can take a long time before acceptance (perhaps 1-2 generations).
That been said, I still opted for the manual when I bought my car a few months back, and likley will buy the next one in manual as well, reguardless of 'how much faster' the tip will/may be. As many of the posters above have articulated very well why they like manuals I do agree that the manual transmission provides more communication between driver and car.
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=1184
Now I am a fan of manual transmissions, but to a certain degree I also do think that the manual transmission is 'archaic'. As time continues, progressive improvements in automatic transmissions will continue, and reach a point where the visceral feel of manuals will be matched along with all the benifits, thus 'eliminating' the need for manuals completely, and apart from nostalgic reasons there will be no benefit. The current tiptronic is really the 1st steps towards this change otherwise why would this car manufacturer invest money in R& D for change (ie DRG) unless they truely felt that was the future? Similarly one could argue that maybe one needs to re-learn how to drive (the tiptronic) in order to exploit it most effectively. Tradition dictates to a certain degree our likes and dislikes and anything that differs from tradition can take a long time before acceptance (perhaps 1-2 generations).
That been said, I still opted for the manual when I bought my car a few months back, and likley will buy the next one in manual as well, reguardless of 'how much faster' the tip will/may be. As many of the posters above have articulated very well why they like manuals I do agree that the manual transmission provides more communication between driver and car.