Why buy 6 speed when Tip is faster?
07-07-2006, 08:21 PM
#61
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Originally Posted by B-Line
-- Now in 1992, some bean counter figured out, if they add power steering, automatic transmissions and cup holders, Porsche could sell more cars. The wife's will buy them, the blvd. cruisers will buy them and the true enthusiast will also buy them despite the watered down flavor, : why: because no other car can still go to the track and get beat on all day long, all weekend long, and still be able to drive it home.
07-07-2006, 08:25 PM
#62
Lifetime Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by boolala
The answer to all your questions is no. Although I have driven a car with a manual transmission I have never owned one. Never really saw the point. If that makes me a poser then fine. I don't define myself by what I drive. I buy my cars for myself and not to impress anyone else.
Now it's OK to lump me in the category of those who just don't "get it". I don't understand the reason why a clutch has to be a manual device. If the technology were available from the beginning clutches would all be electronic and we wouldn't even be having this discussion. I do understand why some people feel the manual is more "engaging" than an fully automatic transmission. But that advantage pales in comparison to the hassle factor when you are stuck in stop and go traffic.
Since DSG style transmissions do the rev matching automatically what exactly is the point of your fancy heel and toe dance? Again i see your point WRT fully auto transmissions.
I do think that we are seeing the last gasp of the manual transmission. In the near future it is going to be in no man's land between those who want the real F1 style transmissions which are faster and allow you to keep both hands on the wheel during spirited driving and those who do not want to pony up the expence (or feel the need for) a DSG and opt for the auto.
Now it's OK to lump me in the category of those who just don't "get it". I don't understand the reason why a clutch has to be a manual device. If the technology were available from the beginning clutches would all be electronic and we wouldn't even be having this discussion. I do understand why some people feel the manual is more "engaging" than an fully automatic transmission. But that advantage pales in comparison to the hassle factor when you are stuck in stop and go traffic.
Since DSG style transmissions do the rev matching automatically what exactly is the point of your fancy heel and toe dance? Again i see your point WRT fully auto transmissions.
I do think that we are seeing the last gasp of the manual transmission. In the near future it is going to be in no man's land between those who want the real F1 style transmissions which are faster and allow you to keep both hands on the wheel during spirited driving and those who do not want to pony up the expence (or feel the need for) a DSG and opt for the auto.
To the original point, I have even driven a couple of auto trans cars on the track and they were mostly fine. If the 997TT Tip is predictable in gear selection then I suspect it would be faster around the track. For me, lap time and carrying speed is more important than 'engaging'. I don't think we gave anything up when we stopped having to crank the engine by hand, to get it running, nor do we give anything up when we quit pushing that silly clutch pedal in and out all the time.
07-07-2006, 08:53 PM
#63
Drifting
Mark,
Thanks for finding my mistake. Your right, it wasn't a Formula Ford.. Good catch.. It's an R/T 2000, (Dodge)..
Second.. Puffing up? What am I puffing up? Am i the fastest guy? not even close. Am I a Pro? Not even close. Am I a mechanical wizard/guru? Not today, not ever? Do I coach fast drivers how to be faster? NO..
-- Do I teach fundamental driving skills to "green" or novice drivers, on occassion, Yes..
Do I have extensive track experience? not compared to some of the real racers out there. Just a total of about 65+ track days and racing schools. Have I driven many tracks:
Limerock
Pocono (North, East, Long configurations)
Sebring
Homestead
Moroso
Daytona
Willow Springs
Buttonwillow
Thunderhill
Laguna Seca
-- p.s. a quartz watch may tell better time than an automatic.. I can't compare the quality of a Rolex to a G-Shock though.. But to call a Rolex out dated because it's not quartz is a joke... (auto vs. tip)
So are all watches in the future going to be quartz too?
Thanks again for finding my error..
B
-- one last thing to add just so there is no confusion or even an idea of misrepresentation... I AM NOT A RACER.. I have never raced a day in my life nor have I ever claimed to have RACED. Yes, I have been to racing schools and many, many DE's, but have never been in a competition. Didn't have the $$$ to spend on racing.. It's a costly sport if you fully engage.. I spent my money on my Masters degree instead. It is in my near future.. Going to do the Skip series hopefully this season.. Hope that clears up any miscommunication..
B
Thanks for finding my mistake. Your right, it wasn't a Formula Ford.. Good catch.. It's an R/T 2000, (Dodge)..
Second.. Puffing up? What am I puffing up? Am i the fastest guy? not even close. Am I a Pro? Not even close. Am I a mechanical wizard/guru? Not today, not ever? Do I coach fast drivers how to be faster? NO..
-- Do I teach fundamental driving skills to "green" or novice drivers, on occassion, Yes..
Do I have extensive track experience? not compared to some of the real racers out there. Just a total of about 65+ track days and racing schools. Have I driven many tracks:
Limerock
Pocono (North, East, Long configurations)
Sebring
Homestead
Moroso
Daytona
Willow Springs
Buttonwillow
Thunderhill
Laguna Seca
-- p.s. a quartz watch may tell better time than an automatic.. I can't compare the quality of a Rolex to a G-Shock though.. But to call a Rolex out dated because it's not quartz is a joke... (auto vs. tip)
So are all watches in the future going to be quartz too?
Thanks again for finding my error..
B
-- one last thing to add just so there is no confusion or even an idea of misrepresentation... I AM NOT A RACER.. I have never raced a day in my life nor have I ever claimed to have RACED. Yes, I have been to racing schools and many, many DE's, but have never been in a competition. Didn't have the $$$ to spend on racing.. It's a costly sport if you fully engage.. I spent my money on my Masters degree instead. It is in my near future.. Going to do the Skip series hopefully this season.. Hope that clears up any miscommunication..
B
07-07-2006, 08:53 PM
#64
Instructor
People buy performance cars for many reasons - and let's exclude those who just want a badge to flaunt..
Steering, brakes, handling, acceleration have nothing to do with whether shifting gears uses your left foot or not....To many these are the attributes that determine the "engaging" or connected feeling for the driver. I have driven manual sedans and Tip 911s, and there is no question which felt more "engaging"
The poseur is somebody I know who bought a 997 (6-speed) recently for the sole purpose of owning a "Porsh" and when asked what he likes best about the car - "the 0-60 acceleration".....he could have saved some money buying the Subaru WRX...
If someone gave me a 997TT Tip, I'd take it
Steering, brakes, handling, acceleration have nothing to do with whether shifting gears uses your left foot or not....To many these are the attributes that determine the "engaging" or connected feeling for the driver. I have driven manual sedans and Tip 911s, and there is no question which felt more "engaging"
The poseur is somebody I know who bought a 997 (6-speed) recently for the sole purpose of owning a "Porsh" and when asked what he likes best about the car - "the 0-60 acceleration".....he could have saved some money buying the Subaru WRX...
If someone gave me a 997TT Tip, I'd take it
07-07-2006, 09:27 PM
#65
5th Gear
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Originally Posted by B-Line
Mark,
Thanks for finding my mistake. Your right, it wasn't a Formula Ford.. Good catch.. It's an R/T 2000, (Dodge)..
Second.. Puffing up? What am I puffing up? Am i the fastest guy? not even close. Am I a Pro? Not even close. Am I a mechanical wizard/guru? Not today, not ever? Do I coach fast drivers how to be faster? NO..
-- Do I teach fundamental driving skills to "green" or novice drivers, on occassion, Yes..
Do I have extensive track experience? not compared to some of the real racers out there. Just a total of about 65+ track days and racing schools. Have I driven many tracks:
Limerock
Pocono (North, East, Long configurations)
Sebring
Homestead
Moroso
Daytona
Willow Springs
Buttonwillow
Thunderhill
Laguna Seca
-- p.s. a quartz watch may tell better time than an automatic.. I can't compare the quality of a Rolex to a G-Shock though.. But to call a Rolex out dated because it's not quartz is a joke... (auto vs. tip)
So are all watches in the future going to be quartz too?
Thanks again for finding my error..
B
-- one last thing to add just so there is no confusion or even an idea of misrepresentation... I AM NOT A RACER.. I have never raced a day in my life nor have I ever claimed to have RACED. Yes, I have been to racing schools and many, many DE's, but have never been in a competition. Didn't have the $$$ to spend on racing.. It's a costly sport if you fully engage.. I spent my money on my Masters degree instead. It is in my near future.. Going to do the Skip series hopefully this season.. Hope that clears up any miscommunication..
B
Thanks for finding my mistake. Your right, it wasn't a Formula Ford.. Good catch.. It's an R/T 2000, (Dodge)..
Second.. Puffing up? What am I puffing up? Am i the fastest guy? not even close. Am I a Pro? Not even close. Am I a mechanical wizard/guru? Not today, not ever? Do I coach fast drivers how to be faster? NO..
-- Do I teach fundamental driving skills to "green" or novice drivers, on occassion, Yes..
Do I have extensive track experience? not compared to some of the real racers out there. Just a total of about 65+ track days and racing schools. Have I driven many tracks:
Limerock
Pocono (North, East, Long configurations)
Sebring
Homestead
Moroso
Daytona
Willow Springs
Buttonwillow
Thunderhill
Laguna Seca
-- p.s. a quartz watch may tell better time than an automatic.. I can't compare the quality of a Rolex to a G-Shock though.. But to call a Rolex out dated because it's not quartz is a joke... (auto vs. tip)
So are all watches in the future going to be quartz too?
Thanks again for finding my error..
B
-- one last thing to add just so there is no confusion or even an idea of misrepresentation... I AM NOT A RACER.. I have never raced a day in my life nor have I ever claimed to have RACED. Yes, I have been to racing schools and many, many DE's, but have never been in a competition. Didn't have the $$$ to spend on racing.. It's a costly sport if you fully engage.. I spent my money on my Masters degree instead. It is in my near future.. Going to do the Skip series hopefully this season.. Hope that clears up any miscommunication..
B
Yer fren
JimBob Jumpback
07-09-2006, 12:14 AM
#67
Nordschleife Master
Originally Posted by 993-CT
Steering, brakes, handling, acceleration have nothing to do with whether shifting gears uses your left foot or not....
You cannot seperate power control from other handling attributes. It is the modulation of all these factors in concert that determines you ability to drive at consistantly acceptable lap times. Turn in point, braking point and line are all intimately attached to how fast you get back on it, and how fast you get back on it is the key to low lap times.
As I posted eariler, I have never seen an auto (including Tip) that didn't occasionally misunderstand what comes next. Now perhaps the new Tip is different...
07-09-2006, 06:17 AM
#68
Instructor
Originally Posted by allegretto
....
As I posted eariler, I have never seen an auto (including Tip) that didn't occasionally misunderstand what comes next. Now perhaps the new Tip is different...
As I posted eariler, I have never seen an auto (including Tip) that didn't occasionally misunderstand what comes next. Now perhaps the new Tip is different...
07-09-2006, 02:31 PM
#69
Drifting
Originally Posted by 993-CT
I am not sure I understand this - are you saying that you have driven a Tip in "Auto" mode only? when the TIp is in "manual" mode, can't you choose what gear comes next and when?
A tip in manual mode will let you select the next gear unless the computer on the tip thinks it knows better than you, what gear you should be in..
For example. Lets say you are in manual, at the top of the RPM range (and lets say you want to stay there for some reason and not upshift) the tip might decide that it is going to upshift anyway. It might also not allow you to downshift when ever you want.
If you hit the rev limiter in a tip, it will go up to the next gear. It will not choke the throttle like on a manual.
07-12-2006, 03:32 AM
#70
Phlat Black Guru
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I have a question for all the "racers".......what transmission do F1 cars have?........and what transmission do those "low life nascar" cars have? Just curious........
07-13-2006, 02:06 AM
#74
Rennlist Member
The tip in full auto is more effective on the track than manually pressing the buttons. In the manual mode, it's hard to get a redline shift, and very difficult to get a maximal-revs downshift. However, left in full auto, the shifts come on the redline, and the downshifts are firm and appropriate. The only thing that confuses it is letting up on your pace. Then, it doesn't know you want an earlier upshift.
By the way, turning left surrounded by concrete is just as challenging as turning right surrounded by grass and run-off areas.I'm looking forward to Juan Pablo's progress. AS
By the way, turning left surrounded by concrete is just as challenging as turning right surrounded by grass and run-off areas.I'm looking forward to Juan Pablo's progress. AS
07-13-2006, 01:02 PM
#75
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F1
To the racers that think heel, toe is all the rage, maybe they should look to the pinnacle of motorsports, F1.
Manual transmissions will go away with the dinosaur. The seamless shifting paddle shifters will make their way out of F1 into the high end sports cars and will do a better job of blipping the pedal under downshift then any top PROFESSIONAL racer. Some of the latest that are in cars like the F430 are already a big improvement over the older gen paddle shifters.
With the advent of the current paddle shift on the 997 twin, for me, you would have to be a die hard old schooler to chose the manual over the paddle due to the fact that the new trans preloads the turbos, thus the better acceleration times. Nuff said.
Manual transmissions will go away with the dinosaur. The seamless shifting paddle shifters will make their way out of F1 into the high end sports cars and will do a better job of blipping the pedal under downshift then any top PROFESSIONAL racer. Some of the latest that are in cars like the F430 are already a big improvement over the older gen paddle shifters.
With the advent of the current paddle shift on the 997 twin, for me, you would have to be a die hard old schooler to chose the manual over the paddle due to the fact that the new trans preloads the turbos, thus the better acceleration times. Nuff said.