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I ran a wire to the ECU. Any one of the six green wires on connector E (grey connector) is ignition trigger. That's what I'm using.
Tom,
Do you have any more info you can share on installing the Shift-I light? After looking at how different it is tapping into the RPM signal on the can bus system of the 997s from the air cooled 911s, I gave up trying to install a shift light.
I did however, perform a slightly more intense mod version of your steering wheel swap and tapped the light and signal column module to install buttons on the steering wheel for easier/safer use on track at speed. The stalk still functions as normal and it's reversible. Great mod!
Edit: I did find this: http://traqmate.com/shifti/shift_i_i...ion_manual.pdf
So you're connecting the ground to I'm assuming the chassis, the ignition wire to one of the green wires you list above but what are you connecting the tach wire to?
Second Edit: considering you have a 997.1 and can access the tech on the OBDII you probably have an easier job that what I would have to do on the Siemens ECU.
Tom,
Do you have any more info you can share on installing the Shift-I light? After looking at how different it is tapping into the RPM signal on the can bus system of the 997s from the air cooled 911s, I gave up trying to install a shift light.
The 996/986 OBD port definitely has tach signal, but the 997/987 doesn't(that I'm aware of). It'd have been great if I didn't have to run a 2.5 meter wire from front to back underneath the carpet but that's what I had to do.
To be frank, while this analog shift light works fine, if a CAN-Bus version becomes available I wouldn't hesitate a split second to buy it! I know AiM Sport is coming out with one later this year but need to buy an AiM dash to operate the shift light, but if I buy an AiM dash it already has built-in shift light on the top portion of the dash. I sent a inquiry to AiM, they have no intetion on making the CAN-Bus shift light work with Solo DL RS232(which I have). Same with Motec dash, gotta spend the big money...way overkill for my usage. Enough of my shift light ranting.
Originally Posted by nwGTS
I did however, perform a slightly more intense mod version of your steering wheel swap and tapped the light and signal column module to install buttons on the steering wheel for easier/safer use on track at speed. The stalk still functions as normal and it's reversible. Great mod!
Very cool. I intended to connect steering wheel buttons to the horn but at the time I didn't find junction point that I was happy with at the steering angle sensor assembly and at the column. When I have more time I'll trace the horn wires further down stream and connect them to the buttons.
So you're connecting the ground to I'm assuming the chassis, the ignition wire to one of the green wires you list above but what are you connecting the tach wire to?
Ground wire to chassis.
Power wire to fuse box.
Tach wire to ECU connector E(one of the green wires).
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2023 Porsche Sprint Challenge 992 Cup Am Champion
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2022 Porsche Sprint Challenge 992 Cup & 991 Cup Champion
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2016 IMSA GT3 Cup Challenge Champion
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I need a shift light in my 964. Drive RS, used to the pull and RPM limits (I short shift at 8 i'm a *****), get in 964 on track and i'm bap-bap-bap-bap bouncing off the limiter... :-)
I do the same. I set the first LED to come on at 7200 and last LED at 8200. When the the LED's light up 3/4 way across I shift. I'm not racing this car so got nothing to prove in acceleration, just out to have a good time and get the most out of the corners and try not to break anything. :-)
I thought folks may be interested in hearing the results of my changes from below:
Originally Posted by Ginsu Tim
Currently the suspension on my 7.1 GT3 is bone stock and I've had it for 2 years. I'm getting more used to the car and fast enough in it on track that little undulations and inconsistencies in the road surface seem to disrupt the car at various points. Examples would be slight dips or crests at high speed apexes (130mph+), dips or ripples in road surface during mid-low speed brake zones where I need to have some wheel in the car, etc. You get it..
As was mentioned earlier in this thread, anti-roll bars will play a key role in the setup, and while I'm currently "full soft" in the front and middle in the rear, I think I'm ready to transition this to more stiff up front while softening the rear. Maybe this simple change will improve how my car feels through the above mentioned sections (curious to hear your thoughts on this).
One of my friends with a lot of experience in GT3s and who is very fast in his own right recommends getting rid of all OE suspension/connection pieces underneath on these cars and replacing with aftermarket parts because they will make the car substantially more predictable all around. There is also a safety & consistency issue he brought up because the eccentric bolts can slip out of place easily once lateral loads become consistently high (amplified by use of R comps).
So I have a couple of questions related to this:
- You spent a lot of time talking about bumpsteer earlier in the thread, do you feel that utilizing aftermarket parts to neutralize bumpsteer is a crucial adjustment to make in the setup of any 7.x GT3?
- If you had to start from scratch, and let's just say for the wild sake of argument that you didn't feel like dumping $7,000 into suspension pieces all at once, can you prioritize the below parts in the order that you would purchase/apply them to your own GT3?
Front Tie Rod w/Bump Steer (2)
Front Toe Link w/Bump Steer (2)
Front Drop Links
Front Tension/Compression Links (2)
Front Monoball End + Adjustable Thrust Arm Bushings
Rear Toe Control Arms
Rear Toe Link w/Bump Steer (2)
Rear Monoball End
Rear Monoball Thrust Arm Bushing (Adjustable)
Rear Upper & Lower Control Arm Links (4)
Rear Tension/Compression Links (2)
Originally Posted by Tom-TPC Racing
I am afraid the some of the items on your list are of no performance value to me for my setup approach. This is in no way implying that my approach is the only approach, it is not. Here's my list in the order of importance to me-
1. Proper alignment for the driving purpose, ride height, eccentric positioning, sway bar setting.
2. Adjustable rear toe links to set toe and correct bump steer.(Requires alignment). I prefer TPC brand. ;-) TPC provides setup details and support on our brand of parts.
3. TPC adjustable sway bars to refine front-to-rear balance to liking, and stabilize the moving around characteristic.
4. DSC module to optimize damping on OEM PASM shocks, and add true dynamic damping function, and to further improve stability by reducing suspension movement and rate of movement when under load. (More aggressive alignment is optional- align as if you bought coilovers with 500/700-lb springs).
5. Solid rear thrust arm bushings or buy Cup or R rear control arms. (Requires alignment)
6. Replace .1 rear rubber bushing dog bones with .2 rubber bushing dog bones, or buy metal bushing dog bone but keep stock length.
7. Tractive DDA coilovers. (Requires alignment) 8. Replace front control arms with Cup or R when OEM street car arms are worn. (Requires alignment)
Originally Posted by Ginsu Tim
I should have mentioned that I have a Guards LSD set at 40/60 ramps, so at least that part is already done I will start playing around with these things soon and let you know what I find! It's hard to find a good shop (not sure there genuinely IS one in this region) that is an expert in both parts/performance AND suspension setting details, but I will hunt around.
Originally Posted by Tom-TPC Racing
Glad you mention your diff spec. Worst that'll happen stiffening the front bar is massive understeer, you'll feel it on semi-aggressive street driving such as entering medium speed exit ramps. As said before, the diff setup is going to dictate the ideal sway bar settings since diff changes the balance of the car via torque transfer, whereas sway bars do it via chassis weight transfer. These two items have to balance each other out and the function of the act is the balance of the car. I know what the outcome will be but I think it is good to experience it for yourself. You might find it to be a fun experiment. The thing about an aggressive conventional diff setup, in my most humble opinion, is that it is meant for driving "flat out". Really great for driving flat out at the track especially with appropriately matching suspension setup, but I find it to add mild rear instability during on/off throttle during a turn for casual street driving as the torque lightly kicks in/out, particularly when the build is fresh. Can spin a car in the rain on exit ramp if not paying attention. Stiffer front bar setting will calm this down for street. But remember to reset the front bar for track use. Ideal front bar setting for track on top of having balancing out the diff setup is for the driving style of the driver. Since my car is not a track only car, I am deferring the diff build until I decide to go for a flat out or milder build..
Okay so, I ended up replacing the following parts & making these changes over the winter:
- Replace Rear Toe Link w/monoball toe link and adjustable bump steer (Tarett/ERP)
- Replace Upper Control arm links w/monoball adjustable control arm links (Tarett/ERP)
- Replace rear OE thrust arm bushing w/solid adjustable thrust arm bushing (Tarett)
- Replace rear eccentric bolts on lower control arm with locking bolts + plates (Tarett)
- flip front/rear anti-roll bar settings. Front now full stiff, rear now middle setting.
- adjust alignment settings all the way around, I believe front neg camber is -2.75 and rear neg camber is -3.0, Toe is fairly neutral.
I finally got her out on track on Friday for the first time since the changes were made, and the objective net result is a 4 second improvement in my lap times! No doubt I'm still learning to drive the 911 chassis at track speeds and improving every time I'm out there, but this was a huge gap and I'd attribute much of the improvement to a more comfortable, composed, and predictable feeling car. Bump Steer has been reduced, Turn-in is crisp as long as I'm trail braking enough, and exit speeds are a whole new thing. For the first time in 2 years of owning my GT3 I can finally feel the diff working.
I believe front neg camber is -2.75 and rear neg camber is -3.0, Toe is fairly neutral.
Thanks for your help Tom, I'm super happy!
Might want to check on those alignment numbers just for your own reference. But I suppose it might not matter as long as You are super happy. Glad to hear you are happy. You are too kind, I don't deserve credit on this, your setup guy deserves the credit.
Since you liked the stiffer front bar setting you'd love the DSC module! WINK-WINK.
Might want to check on those alignment numbers just for your own reference. But I suppose it might not matter as long as You are super happy. Glad to hear you are happy. You are too kind, I don't deserve credit on this, your setup guy deserves the credit.
Since you liked the stiffer front bar setting you'd love the DSC module! WINK-WINK.
Ah yeah, I had them reversed. Pulled up my sheet this morning.
Front is -3* Camber
L-.02/-.04R Toe
Rear is -2.75* Camber
L.03/.07R Toe
And for sure, many props were given to the guy who set up the car
But yeah, I just wanted to thank you for the wealth of knowledge shared, particularly on bumpsteer which had never come up in any other discussion that I've had, but also on your specific advice for which parts to focus on and which parts weren't worth the coin.
I'm going to give this a few more sessions before making any changes, but yeah I'll probably swap to RS coils and one of your fancy DSC modules
This latest information is really important, one of the biggest complaints about these model year cars is how "wonky and late feeling" the suspension reactions are...
I will very likely get flamed by members who just want a simple answer of a set of recommended values. The truth is I don't have a set of recommended values. I am not trying to be a wisea$$ here but I am afraid there isn't one set of recommended values that will work for every person and every car and every usage or mixed usage. Its actually pretty complicated(to me anyway) because I'm not just setting numbers I'm sort of engineering the car with driver input to achieve the driver's goal(s). There are variables such as type of usage, tires, shocks/springs setup, driver preference, and how much of a compromise the driver is willing to accept for tire wear and driveability on street in favor for track performance. Also, there is more than one way to achieve a certain set of values on these cars; via factory eccentrics or control arm shims, struts tower slots, ride height, aftermarket adjustable links, etc. So two cars could have the same "static" alignment values but will have different characteristics on the road/track depending on how these values are achieved. As I have said before on this thread and other threads, it is best to work with a local shop with motorsport experience who is familiar with these cars(and what the adjustments actually do when the car is in motion). This way the alignment guy is engineering a set of values outside of factory specs in order to achieve what the driver wants based on the driver's feedback and how the rest of the car is setup. If you are starting from scratch there are values posted by many drivers on this forum which will be a good place to start if your goals are similar to theirs. For street driving factory spec is a good place to start and modify it accordingly to your preference. In the 997 GT3 owner's manual there's actually a factory track alignment that was intended for stock tires but works decent with other similar tires. Getting side tracked a bit here, I bet if Porsche had their dealer techs performed their track alignment then they probably didn't need to put out a bulletin to install GT2 rear sway bar on 997.1 GT3's to counter understeer. But Porsche probably didn't want to do that because of accelerated tire wear and potential liability. This is just an example of how a single part change can "mask" alignment values and vice versa. I reiterating working with a local motorsports professional who understand the car as a whole and understands the driver's goal(s) would be best.
I do provide setup support either in person or via email or via telephone to users of suspension products that I sell. In fact, this is all I do when I'm not turning wrenches at the shop. The support I provide is only effective if the user follows my formula and gives feedback. My formula is not the only formula, there are different approaches to car setup. I am happy to answer questions in general but I feel that specific values established between the shop and the customer is privilege info. To me if the customer pays for the parts/services the info is his and should he wants to give out for others to duplicate then great, but also we are back to square one with such a set of alignment values but how was it achieved?(shims, eccentrics, ride height, slots, etc.). Often duplicating someone's alignment values work well when all or most variables are same for both cars/drivers and if a car is way out of whack to begin with duplicating can be a big step in a positive direction.
Maybe my thinking is too complicated and I am just too out of whack. But if you still just want a set of numbers then all I gots its my flame suit on.
Don't thank me yet. Just thought of something. If you are doing this on your 997.2 GTS then the tach output wire from the ECU is at a different location than on my .1 ECU. The .2 ECU(for DFI engine) doesn't have connector "E" with green wires. Here's a photo of .1 and .2(DFI) ECU. The bigger unit on the right is .2 ECU.
I'll try to look next time I'm in PIWIS. If not suitable tach wire on .2 DFI ECU then only other alternative to wire on ignition coil.
Don't thank me yet. Just thought of something. If you are doing this on your 997.2 GTS then the tach output wire from the ECU is at a different location than on my .1 ECU. The .2 ECU(for DFI engine) doesn't have connector "E" with green wires. Here's a photo of .1 and .2(DFI) ECU. The bigger unit on the right is .2 ECU.
I'll try to look next time I'm in PIWIS. If not suitable tach wire on .2 DFI ECU then only other alternative to wire on ignition coil.
I'm glad you posted this because I learned this very thing last Thursday when I pulled all the carpet and the ECU cover to find the 997.1 Bosch unit was a very different setup than the DFI's. You're supposed to know everything, Tom!
Edit: After speaking with Shift-i, they admit the engine speed meter would be most accurate but their device is not calibrated for it and recommend as Tom said to tap one of the ignition coil trigger leads.
Here they are circled in green. B54, B55, B56, B78, B79, B80
Hopefully that helps anyone else hooking up a device like this in the DFI cars.
04-13-2016, 06:59 PM
I sent a inquiry to AiM, they have no intetion on making the CAN-Bus shift light work with Solo DL RS232(which I have). Same with Motec dash, gotta spend the big money...way overkill for my usage. Enough of my shift light ranting.
