Destructive Torsional Harmonics or How to keep your cam bolts from backing out...
08-19-2015, 10:19 PM
#181
Rennlist Member
Hello all,
Looking for some help / guidance. I'm an inch away from closing on a 2011 GT3RS. Coolant pipes have net been welded so will immediately get that done and have the actuator bolts looked at (changed) by my race shop.
Question is - I'm trying to get CPO on the car. Will welding the colant pipes and touching the actuator bolts void whatever warranty the CPO provides ?
Thanks in advance for any guidance...
Looking for some help / guidance. I'm an inch away from closing on a 2011 GT3RS. Coolant pipes have net been welded so will immediately get that done and have the actuator bolts looked at (changed) by my race shop.
Question is - I'm trying to get CPO on the car. Will welding the colant pipes and touching the actuator bolts void whatever warranty the CPO provides ?
Thanks in advance for any guidance...
08-20-2015, 12:29 PM
#183
Rennlist Member
Thanks for this and my race shop mentioned. I guess that I still have the open question of whether having this work done voids any kind of warranty I get from the CPO...because if it does, then maybe no benefit for me to get that ? Any thoughts would be appreciated and thanks again.
02-12-2016, 11:39 PM
#185
Pro
A damper would help... 
[/QUOTE]
.... but have you been able to generate any data to support that? I think you've put a great deal of effort into this and that's awesome for us (for a low volume sales item for you), but it would be much more compelling if you had any sort of evidence.
Cheers!
Mark
[/QUOTE].... but have you been able to generate any data to support that? I think you've put a great deal of effort into this and that's awesome for us (for a low volume sales item for you), but it would be much more compelling if you had any sort of evidence.
Cheers!
Mark
02-13-2016, 02:54 AM
#186
Pro
Jamie
Thank you for taking the time to respond. Yes, saying "prove it" is much easier than actually doing that amount of bench work
It sounds as though you have some positive feedback - hopefully more will follow from the 3.8 & 4.0 group who have had it installed.
Cheers
Mark
Thank you for taking the time to respond. Yes, saying "prove it" is much easier than actually doing that amount of bench work
It sounds as though you have some positive feedback - hopefully more will follow from the 3.8 & 4.0 group who have had it installed.
Cheers
Mark
02-13-2016, 04:44 PM
#188
Rennlist Member
Hi Mark,
We looked into generating the harmonics plots, requires the engine to come out, laser encoders for the front and rear and about 25,000 for all the equipment. All told it's super expensive and we've already shown the dampener to be effective. A few big builds from a couple years ago was continuously eating oil pumps. With the dampener, not a single issue since.
We've sold many to 997.2 GT3 customers as well, after they've had actuators come apart...
I'd love to generate the Data, but honestly even if we had it very few can understand it.
The dampener is the only product of it's kind for our cars. It's an inexpensive investment...
Do you have one damper for GT3s and one for RSs?
02-13-2016, 04:55 PM
#189
We have one harmonic dampener for the 997.1/997.2 GT3/Turbo's. The 997.2 GT3's came with a dual mass flywheel and this acted as a bit of a harmonic dampener. The 997.2 GT3RS came with a single mass and had no dampening. This is why actuator bolts backing out are an issue on GT3's that have converted to a single mass flywheel and on all GT3RS.
The full fix is to upgrade to the latest revision of the 997.2 GT3 RSActuators, torque the bolts (I believe it's 18 ftlbs, but don't quote me) and add the harmonic dampener.
The dampener isn't a magic bullet, if the bolts are already on their way loose, putting the dampener on won't tighten them...
The full fix is to upgrade to the latest revision of the 997.2 GT3 RSActuators, torque the bolts (I believe it's 18 ftlbs, but don't quote me) and add the harmonic dampener.
The dampener isn't a magic bullet, if the bolts are already on their way loose, putting the dampener on won't tighten them...
02-13-2016, 05:03 PM
#190
Rennlist Member
Jamie,
Do you know if the latest cam actuators differ greatly in design from the original, or has Porsche simply changed the part number to add threadlocker to the bolts which secure the actuators in place. In other words, I can't imagine the actuators are the issue, but more like the hardware that holds them on since the actuators aren't actually breaking.
That being said, I'm weeks away from a full RS 4.0 clutch/FW setup, and would like to know if the damper pulley is a stock item on your end?
I intend to replace the actuator bolts with drilled-head versions, add fresh loctite, re-torque, and add safety wire for solid insurance.
Thanks!
Do you know if the latest cam actuators differ greatly in design from the original, or has Porsche simply changed the part number to add threadlocker to the bolts which secure the actuators in place. In other words, I can't imagine the actuators are the issue, but more like the hardware that holds them on since the actuators aren't actually breaking.
That being said, I'm weeks away from a full RS 4.0 clutch/FW setup, and would like to know if the damper pulley is a stock item on your end?
I intend to replace the actuator bolts with drilled-head versions, add fresh loctite, re-torque, and add safety wire for solid insurance.
Thanks!
02-13-2016, 05:08 PM
#191
It's hard to tell from the images, and part numbers. I know the original parts also had threadlocker on them, but again, haven't seen the parts in my hands to compare.
I know porsche kept rev'ing the part numbers and others have upgraded after having the failure...
Drilled head, safety wire, etc... AND a harmonic dampener and you should be good for a long while.
We just got 10 pcs back in stock!
Jamie
I know porsche kept rev'ing the part numbers and others have upgraded after having the failure...
Drilled head, safety wire, etc... AND a harmonic dampener and you should be good for a long while.
We just got 10 pcs back in stock!
Jamie
02-13-2016, 05:24 PM
#192
Pro
Jamie,
Do you know if the latest cam actuators differ greatly in design from the original, or has Porsche simply changed the part number to add threadlocker to the bolts which secure the actuators in place. In other words, I can't imagine the actuators are the issue, but more like the hardware that holds them on since the actuators aren't actually breaking.
That being said, I'm weeks away from a full RS 4.0 clutch/FW setup, and would like to know if the damper pulley is a stock item on your end?
I intend to replace the actuator bolts with drilled-head versions, add fresh loctite, re-torque, and add safety wire for solid insurancew.
Thanks!
Do you know if the latest cam actuators differ greatly in design from the original, or has Porsche simply changed the part number to add threadlocker to the bolts which secure the actuators in place. In other words, I can't imagine the actuators are the issue, but more like the hardware that holds them on since the actuators aren't actually breaking.
That being said, I'm weeks away from a full RS 4.0 clutch/FW setup, and would like to know if the damper pulley is a stock item on your end?
I intend to replace the actuator bolts with drilled-head versions, add fresh loctite, re-torque, and add safety wire for solid insurancew.
Thanks!
Does anyone have a photo of a wired actuator bolt?
Cheers
Mark
02-13-2016, 08:26 PM
#193
Rennlist Member
02-13-2016, 10:11 PM
#194
To be clear, the .1 997 gt3s are less prone to the harmonic out of balance issue? Or the cam actuator bolts loosing up actually are occurring on this model? are they two separate issues (one possibly affecting the other)?
Trying to confirm applicability on .1 997s. Read the whole thread and was a bit confused.
Trying to confirm applicability on .1 997s. Read the whole thread and was a bit confused.
02-13-2016, 11:08 PM
#195
To be clear, the .1 997 gt3s are less prone to the harmonic out of balance issue? Or the cam actuator bolts loosing up actually are occurring on this model? are they two separate issues (one possibly affecting the other)?
Trying to confirm applicability on .1 997s. Read the whole thread and was a bit confused.
Trying to confirm applicability on .1 997s. Read the whole thread and was a bit confused.
And please please please don't use the word balancer, everyone jumps in this and says it's a balancer. The crank is balanced internally. But that doesn't keep it from rotationally vibrating around its axis. The dampener keeps the axial vibrations from getting out of control!