Ur20v

In all fairness to Jamie, I said I would get data on the 'before and after' but due to circumstances out of my control I haven't got anything that would make sense to anyone outside the VA world.

There is obvious changes post damper, both on the traces from my equipment and from observations driving- i.e less rattles and vibrations and smoother feeling to the engine especially between 3-4.5k rpm.

I was getting spikes/interferance that I couldn't filter in the dyno time I had but I will endorse this product even though I didn't need it- i.e I have a .1 GT3 but the intension was to do proper independant before and after testing, prior on a fresh 3.6, then add a LWFW, then 4.2 build with OEM pulley then back on with a damper.

I hope business picks up so I can afford the time and expence to follow through with this test and provide meaningfull data for everyone here.

madmurdock

Read RangerRS build thread and shoot him a PM. If I recall he lost and engine. Rebuilt it and is using a damper and no issues at all. I call that testing .

HiWind

What are the power loss implications of adding what is quite a hefty piece to the crank?

Jamie_GT3

We haven't seen much and in fact when you consider that the crank isn't yanking the camshafts back and forth, valve timing is more accurate and you'll make more power at high rpm...

Ur20v

I wasn't dynoing for power readings but a way of reproducing rpm conditions to do the VA, but readings were all consitant as to be no change from the pulley/damper swap.

Ur20v

Think of it anotherway- adding a LWFW doesn't show on the dyno plus you are adding a little weight near the rotaing mass centre and using rubber to dampen the vibrations and which can build into destructive harmonics and back out bolts including cam actuators and crank pulleys and 4.0 throttle plate screw etc plus shatter oil pump gears on bigger engines 4.1<

Note under drive pulleys don't 'add' power from their weight saving but by so say reducing the energy of PS, AC, alternator and water pump.

HiWind

^^ thanks UR20v .. those are some good points espec. re "near the centre"

modoz61

Hi All

Sorry for the long departure from this thread.

as mentioned earlier my cam actuators backed out yet again in a spectacular way, two bolt heads exited through a hole in the cam cover plate. and this after creating a locking tab washer and loctite on bolts was used.

As Jamie as mentioned previously the cam actuators are the result not the cause, its engine harmonics.

A tear down of the engine revealed far more harmonics damage than I was prepared for and has resulted in a complete rebuild.

Point of note: The cam actuators appear not be a part that Porsche want anyone to refurbish/repair/disassemble, this from a respected repairer in Australia. to qualify they stated the actuator has laser markings which they thought indicated high precision assembly.

That said I am not certain it would have made any real difference if I had upgraded to new actuators over repairing the existing.

As I have stated above the actuators were just one part and the most easily identified issue with resonance.

My car has had the resonance issue from very early in ownership - the curse of the early adopter.

I was at a track day mid 2015 when my newly refurbished actuators with locking tabs let go, to the point of break heads off cam actuator bolts. We were going to fit the ATI Damper when this work was done but it was a case of which solution worked.

Anyway it may have been a blessing in disguise (very well disguised I would add)

The tear down revealed far more damage related to resonance issues that I was expecting

The close to the flywheel the greater the related damage/issues

Valve Stem Guides all ovalised to the point of valves being only a thou from touching
Barrel for cylinder 6 ovalised
wrist pins and crank with wear patterns flywheel end
the interface between crank and flywheel badly scuffed
the list goes on

Long story short a full rebuild is needed with lots of new parts.

The engine will be getting the damper fitted before it ever turns over under its own power.

For those with many miles and no perceptible issues fitting a damper will at least defer the inevitable or perhaps prevent it all together (IMHO)

Kudos for Jamie for piloting the project

hillsdonsmith

Great, now I'm twitching like a nervous hamster looking down the barrel of CPO expiration in 6 months.

Your sig says 997.2 GT3. Is your car narrow body w reg flywheel or had you modified it? Sorry, that info's probably here somewhere.

How many others have found similar damage on engine tear down?

Cheers

Mark

hillsdonsmith

Time to vote!

Ok, got the greenlight from dealer to install a dampener, which I assume would be easier while engine is out.

Service manager (who I know well enough to know he's not just trying to upsell me) said if I want the piece of mind re actuator bolts/harmonics, he REALLY recommends replacing the actuators.

Those are Cdn$5200.00 for parts only, turning this elective coolant pinning project into a $10K bill.

So... What would you do? Spend another $5K on upgraded actuators? Has anyone had the 4.0 actuators back out? It's difficult to quantify the risk, as my car has had no (detectable) issue in 62,000 km and $5K invested would not likely be recouped in resale, but rather just another attempt to prevent engine destruction.

Perhaps I'm just not quite wealthy enough to play this game $10K fine; $50K new engine - ouch!

Jamie - you will have a PM shortly

Thanks,

Mark

Jamie_GT3

Hi Mike, sorry to hear this, but you're the first to confirm without a doubt that the 997.2 GT3/RS is a bit of a time bomb. We suspected this from the failures we've heard of the 997.2 4.0RS needing new engines, 3-4 times under warranty...

Not sure where you're at in your engine build process, but there are a number of parts we could supply to add a bit of performance and longevity over the factory parts. Let me know where things are in the build...



The 4.0 actuators back out as well, if you safety wire them, the wire will break or in Mike's extreme case the bolt heads broke. That is some serious force...

The solution is to quench the harmonic and the dampener does this. The reason to put the latest actuators in, is to ensure that the bolts aren't already on their way out and you just don't have any sign of it yet (could be a couple thousandths from the case and you wouldn't know).

This will indeed add value to a knowledgeable purchaser, just like knowing the coolant fittings are welded adds value...

We now have 8 dampeners in stock after Mark's and Tom's purchase.

hillsdonsmith

If the actuator bolts are currently tight though (engine is out and have been checked), would not just installing the dampener be enough? I can see the uncertainty if one was just putting dampener on without dropping engine/checking actuator bolts are tight.

Jamie_GT3

I'm careful on absolutes with this, but if they've been checked and the dampener fitted you should be in good shape.

hillsdonsmith

Thanks for that. Just trying to weigh relative risks and that helps.

Dampener ordered!

Cheers,

Mark

John Chan

Mark,
If you can drive to Seattle for coolant pipe work, it is about $3500k welded professionally. You can ask Jamie to hook you up with the entire package.