bgoetz

So are you doing a prebuilt and core type of setup moving forward?

BNB911

So will there be a webinar April for Remaining Q3 or Q4 Spots @ additional 4-5K over last weeks webinar?

dubsiren

I am talking to Hartech about sending them my blocks and getting the cylinders done and new pistons.

Flat6 Innovations

Yes, we will have the webinar in April. That date and meeting is already set.
Everything hinges on what parts and importation costs me for a batch of engines based on engine family, stage and build period.
I only sold the slots that we had parts on hand for, or parts allocated for at a known price in the last webinar. That is why we filled some Q3 slots, but also why some people did not get their welcome package accepted. If we didn’t have the parts/ allocations for the parts for their stage and engine family I didn’t take on the work.
I am trying very hard to be fair, but also no over- commit. It is a fine line to balance on.

As a guess the prices will be up 4-5k by April based on trends and the hassles I have had to go through to get parts that no one else can get in this country. I have had to get exceptionally creative with acquiring parts and importing them on my own- because there’s no shipping containers. My method doesn’t need a container.

As an example I used to pay around 800.00 in shipping costs to create an engine. As of the end of 2021 that figure had surpassed 3,700.00 per engine. That’s just shipping.

@bgoetz
Yes, something like that…. But I hate it. Any other method of sales leaves us with commitments that will be near impossible to keep on absolute time lines.
The other possibilities are going back to creating more aircooled engines, where we can manufacture almost every part here in USA, and already do.
For Q4 I may not take on any water cooled stuff at all, and give us some breathing room and process time.
The hardest parts to find are those for M9X series of engines, so tabling this while trying to suck up every part we can is the best choice. Since we build engines for every rear/ mid engined Porsche from 1950- present day makes us very diversified, so we don’t depend on the M9X to stay busier than we want to be.

I’m also chopping the number of engines we build each year by 1/3 and making up for that with additional resource materials. We are all tired of killing ourselves for no reason.

bgoetz

Wow definitely feel lucky to be part of maybe one of the last groups that will be done this way, the process in itself has been an experience. That said, I am sure you will still make it some type of a FSI experience buying at the end.

Your approach to being ahead of the game, securing parts for each customer, and how you move engines through your facility is extremely impressive. Hopefully those reading really get some appreciation for how methodical your process really is and your “tell it like it is” approach continues throughout all levels of your business, even in situations where it may not directly benefit you. You could certainly over commit and take bigger risks to maybe make a bit more $, but you have the thoughtfulness to realize that doing so not only hurts the customer, but your employees/business.

As I think I have said before, all of the hoops (webinars, contracts, strict timing windows) seem to be as much for my benefit as a customer as they are for your benefit. Possibly more.

Flat6 Innovations

No reason to take risks, or change anything. That would just increase the stress level. I play this game a unique way, because my dad taught me how to do business. I didn't learn it in a classroom.
Making more is really making less, because I learned a long time ago that the more you make, the less you retain.

Being versatile, and able to handle any challenge with certainty is the greatest advantage that we have. I was always the guy that had to do the most with the least, so when you get used to that, and keep practicing it,( even when you don't have to) you get a knack for dealing with anything that is thrown at you.

We have 18 months before any changes will be made, but the slots to fill those 18 months are almost filled already. We may go over a solid year with no new sales, if I change the program to an on- demand style of order fulfillment. The only way this will work is if every engine has every option, because if it doesn't, the buyer would want to add something that could not be added.

What I hate most about having to change to this is the core charges and hassles that will be the norm. I always see a core charge as a point of potential argument, if the engine is broken and damage has to be collected for at disassembly. That means that we will likely never deal with a broken engine again, so only elective jobs would be accepted, where we have known core condition, not needing potential extra charges for broken parts. Nothing is a point of more contest than core fees that are assessed later. Those are the ways that the shady guys collect more money from their sales, because there's always more wrong with the core than anticipated.

I am not looking forward to the coming months. It would be a lot easier to just abandon the M9X families of engines for a while, and go back to aircooled until things turn around, and we can keep doing things the way that we always have. The other possibility is to dramatically reduce the amount of engines we build across the board, and let the world around us slow down a bit, while we wait it out. One thing is for sure, with each year that passes I care less about timelines, scheduling, and commitments. Each of those things are points that kill us, and that's why we remain on schedule when everyone, everywhere else is failing.

We have worked to perfect the process to the point that it is at now for over 15 years. Each milestone, and stage of the process has points that trigger actions. It works.

All of that is for the buyer. In a world where everything, and everyone sucks, I want the one positive thing that people experience to be my process. Over the past 2 years of this virus BS I have have untold amounts of people tell me exactly that. Many people have said that the process to restore function to their car was the only positive thing that happened in their life for that entire year, and the only thing that stayed on budget, and on time. People share these experiences, and I guess that's why we are so busy, with zero advertisement.

As I type this I see a banner ad at the bottom of the page from a "pretender" who hasn't put his focus where it belongs. He lacks proficiency, and execution, as well as knowledge, and intestinal fortitude; therefore he has to advertise to try and take his share. If anything, I will keep pushing only to keep people like him in check, so they can keep that target on my back, forcing them to do better, and try harder. They'll never truly learn the secret to success, because they are too busy trying to make more money, rather than executing the craft. They have lavish showrooms, and a coffee bar where you can get a favorite latte, while I work on a converted turkey farm, inside buildings that I built with my own hands. Their crew has spotless uniforms, and I wear sweatpants with engine sealant stains on them, and a 20 year old T shirt. When the random customer shows up they think I'm the guy that cleans parts for a living, and I let them think that, so I can get my damn work done and not have to deal with PR. That's the difference.

sburke91

I was thinking the same thing. As one of those 'penciled in' 2023 Q3's (I thought I got my Q2 welcome package back fast, but others blew my doors off), I consider myself fortunate to have gotten into the process as what could be one of of the last ones in the current FSI model. I'm fortunate to be an elective build, and am enjoying the process tremendously.

Jake--I'm sure you've already thought about this (you seem to be ahead of the game on most things), but I suspect the core exchange model will resurface a groundswell of 'how can I get it NOW?' requests. If there's one upside to the challenges we're seeing in the global supply chain, I'm hoping it's to restore an understanding across the general public that 'good things take time' and that we don't need to get everything overnight.

Flat6 Innovations

We had to go back to the signature system and break the execution times down into seconds for 3 of the welcome packages, because 3 of them came in during the same minute. I used to think it was crazy to get the welcome packages back in 4 hours, and fill 16 slots the same day. Hell, we filled all the spots for Q2 and what we had parts allocations for in Q3 in less than 2 hours. The couple of outliers came in a little later.

If I do change models when it comes to how the engines are sold I'll need some way to do sales that is fair, else I'm going to have people complaining that they didn't have a fair way to purchase based on when the messages of availability of each engine was shared. People will bitch for no reason, but when they have a reason they'll leverage that into a complaint where we owe them a deal.
The answer may be completely abandoning sales, just building and developing; leaving sales and support up to another company. I like this, because then I could rip the phone off the wall, and blow it up.

cdk4219

Yes when your business consumes your life, never catching up, and now in a point where you have worked for this, but turning away sales is a bitter pill to swallow.

Managing 2 years out is difficult at best, no matter if you tell people upfront the time frame, you will have to hire someone just to answer the phone when they call 8 months earlier than you scheduled them. And then the whining starts , with demands.


I like the “you need to hire more people” or “you need to raise your prices”. If you could just clone yourself, because if you weren’t there, this demand wouldn’t be there. At least with these engines, you have guaranteed work forever.

BNB911

I hate to say it but after 25 years in my business, He's right Jake! Your in the "Sweet" spot of your career. Raise the prices, It is what it is People will pay. Anyone can order parts, what you offer does not have a part number. And hiring the right people would be harder than cloning yourself. Work less make more enjoy life. I hate to admit, but your borderline out of my price point already. But your selling the entire ball of wax. In your posts above, You already know what you have to do. Business is Business, It is what it is. Best of Luck!

Flat6 Innovations

I'm at the point where I enjoy saying no, more than collecting someone's money. I live very simply, I don't need any more money, and I don't need more headaches. Each sale is a potential catastrophe, or pain in my ***. I look at sales like liabilities, rather than assets at this point. It isn't about making more, its just about retention of what we have built. The retention is more difficult than starting from scratch.

This is why my process is so defined up front, why I perform 4 hour webinars, and why I am so damn point blank that I offend people. If anyone ever asks us for an update during the process spanning 18 months, we have failed.
Hiring someone to answer the phone doesn't work. That person would answer the phone, and not know exactly who he was talking to by the tone of the voice on the other end of the phone. We must know everything at all times, and that means that if the customer has to tell us who they are, we have already failed. Anything less, and he believes that he isn't important, or has been forgotten about.

Hiring more people is a disaster. I have no patience for people that suck, so it is my job to sniff out a new hire and break him/ her within 3 weeks. If you make it here 3 weeks, you'll be here for 15+ years in almost every case.


Raising prices doesn't work. It just multiplies the intensity, since it raises the expectation level, while simultaneously reducing the margin of error for perfection. I have already seen this as I have been forced to raise prices due to inflation. It adds to the headache.

You guys that have normal businesses will never understand the difference in business that comes from a custom atmosphere, dealing with an object that people are passionate about. Hell, people name these cars, and call them "my baby". There's nothing worse than this scenario fo me, because it demands more of my particular time, and I have to work even harder to make things flawless.

The hack guys that do stuff very cheap don't have to live with this. If something isn't perfect, they can just say "I bought the cheap one and got what I paid for". They are accepting of almost anything, even failure. I deal with them after what they bought cheap didn't work out, and I see how they just write it off and never even complain. Thats why you don't see posts here about cheap junk blowing up, even though it routinely does. They know that if they complain here that they'll be told they were a fool for buying the cheap one- they don't want to hear that, because they know that.

My scenario is quite the contrary. The expectation of perfection is applied to every single aspect of what we do. If we miss one update, or someone has to ask us for a status update, we have already failed. I once had a car shipped home with a dirty ashtray (none of us smoke) and the customer complained that we missed it. This is what we deal with, and as we've gained a higher grade from others, and worked our way up, the stress on the entire team is multiplied. I am exploring the possibilities of removing ourselves from the purchase process completely, which is ultimately the only way to go.

I own 4 businesses, and this one is the only one that is of a custom nature. What works for the other 3, do not work at all for this one.

Put simply, when I was building VW engines in a barn with a dirt floor, things were a hell of a lot better, easier, more forgiving, and I actually enjoyed it more. Having to keep the wood heater fed in the winter added to the work day, since I cut and busted my own wood. It took a while for the guys with Porsche cars to stomach the fact that their car was being worked on in a barn, but they came around.

BNB911

Im talking to Kelly Moss about this fall. Please keep me in the loop. Are there any other options out there? No one responded to me when I asked if anyone out there has actually spent 20K+ on a build. So I have to ask, Is a steel sleeve an option?
I wish My fishing boat engine would fit.

Ilmor Mv-10

Flat6 Innovations

I've discussed these engines with Andy at Kelly- Moss, but didn't think he was interested in them.

As for steel sleeves, Jarno at Werksmotor in Germany is the only person that has been able to make steel sleeves work long term. On average I receive 2-3 reports of engine fitted with them needing "re- rebuilding" every month. I won't accept the jobs, because the mods botch the block so badly.

BNB911

Talking with Patrick, there builder is backed up a bit but Im looking at Fall-Winter?

Flat6 Innovations

Andy runs the show.. He seemed disinterested to me, but that was a year or so ago.