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Damn! Car in for #6 cyl scoring. Which way to go?

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Old 12-09-2016 | 12:42 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by gpjli2
Anyone here expecting a Happy Face for this post? Sorry. As per this AM:

There is a longitudinal score running the length of the #6 cylinder bore. This after 48K miles of obsessive maintainence, upgraded oil, 3k oil changes, and TLC bordering on fanatical. A fatally flawed product.

I am exploring options for replacement engine. RND is favored by repair shop. Not have firm cost yet.

I am so f'ing pissed I am close to certifiable at this point. Just thought I'd share that.

To be continued
I get it... I had two engines fail in my 2000 Boxster S. The first gen of water cooled engine designs were never race tested and designed when Porsche was failing.

Good luck... hey, I was really pissed too so what did I do? I purchased another Porsche, a 2009 with the new engine. I guess I just rewarded shoddy work. To each his own......

Peace
Bruce in Philly
Old 12-09-2016 | 01:08 PM
  #32  
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Until you get some money to repair (or change) the engine, I would clean up the exhaust tail pipe on a regular basis and drive the car as if nothing had happened. The score is probably not from yesterday and had you not decided to take a detailed peek into the engine, your mind would not be infected with worries and fears.

I agree with you that these expensive cars have a long list of issues that do not belong to luxury cars. I wonder what it is to own (and maintain) a McLaren or a Lamborghini.

Yves
Old 12-09-2016 | 02:45 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by yvesvidal
Until you get some money to repair (or change) the engine, I would clean up the exhaust tail pipe on a regular basis and drive the car as if nothing had happened. The score is probably not from yesterday and had you not decided to take a detailed peek into the engine, your mind would not be infected with worries and fears.

I agree with you that these expensive cars have a long list of issues that do not belong to luxury cars. I wonder what it is to own (and maintain) a McLaren or a Lamborghini.

Yves
Interesting question...... I can't speak to either of those two but I have a close friend who owned Ferraris...... they were crap. Each of his three (owned one at a time) would periodically eject parts forcibly through the air near where children play. Or, sometimes late at night, he would hear a bang! and see some trim piece lodged in his garage wall. The sales guy at the dealership said something like "oh, you are going to drive it? You will have consequential maintenance costs then." (yes a true story).

If the market (me) rewards shoddy work, nothing will change. Ultimately it is consumer driven with a little of regulatory thrown in. Price of product is irrelevant.

Peace
Bruce in Philly
Old 12-09-2016 | 03:15 PM
  #34  
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Id go to dealer first. Have them scope it and then work with PCNA to try to get them to cover some of the cost. Sure you would end up with another failure prone factory engine, but its one option that may not cost you as much as a full rebuild from LN or Flat6. RND long blocks are a great option, and cost 17k, plus taxes installation, shipping and core. If you have a good core- you get money back, but you have to upfront the money for core charge... And that could be as much as 10k. And you wont know what you get back until much later.

Call PCNA and report it, so they know just how common these failures have become. Perhaps there will be action by Porsche in the future, and then you can be included.

I myself...well im letting the cat out of the bag here, have a 2007 911 s with 27k and ALL SIX cylinders are scored. I have no soot and no excessive oil consumption. But i do have the other symptoms including metal in the oil. I stopped driving the car in April, after discovering the issue durring a coilpack change, after owning the car only 6 months.

I have choosen to have Flat6 rebuild mine, as a 4.0. My car ships out in a month. Luckily I was able to afford it and wait for it, although it has not been easy!
Old 12-09-2016 | 03:34 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by yvesvidal
Until you get some money to repair (or change) the engine, I would clean up the exhaust tail pipe on a regular basis and drive the car as if nothing had happened. The score is probably not from yesterday and had you not decided to take a detailed peek into the engine, your mind would not be infected with worries and fears.

I agree with you that these expensive cars have a long list of issues that do not belong to luxury cars. I wonder what it is to own (and maintain) a McLaren or a Lamborghini.

Yves
The problem is that the core refund on a long block is considerable, may be as high as 8k$. The more damage done the greater the chance the block will not be accepted. If the lining shreds forget it. I have been doing that for a while now but the other day after a brief run the idle was scary rough, as if you pulled a plug wire. At that point my inner mechanic said "its time".
Old 12-09-2016 | 03:37 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Bruce In Philly
I get it... I had two engines fail in my 2000 Boxster S. The first gen of water cooled engine designs were never race tested and designed when Porsche was failing.

Good luck... hey, I was really pissed too so what did I do? I purchased another Porsche, a 2009 with the new engine. I guess I just rewarded shoddy work. To each his own......

Peace
Bruce in Philly
I have read about your problems and was going to pm you. Who rebuilt you engine?
Old 12-09-2016 | 03:39 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by granprixweiss928
Id go to dealer first. Have them scope it and then work with PCNA to try to get them to cover some of the cost. Sure you would end up with another failure prone factory engine, but its one option that may not cost you as much as a full rebuild from LN or Flat6. RND long blocks are a great option, and cost 17k, plus taxes installation, shipping and core. If you have a good core- you get money back, but you have to upfront the money for core charge... And that could be as much as 10k. And you wont know what you get back until much later.

Call PCNA and report it, so they know just how common these failures have become. Perhaps there will be action by Porsche in the future, and then you can be included.

I myself...well im letting the cat out of the bag here, have a 2007 911 s with 27k and ALL SIX cylinders are scored. I have no soot and no excessive oil consumption. But i do have the other symptoms including metal in the oil. I stopped driving the car in April, after discovering the issue durring a coilpack change, after owning the car only 6 months.

I have choosen to have Flat6 rebuild mine, as a 4.0. My car ships out in a month. Luckily I was able to afford it and wait for it, although it has not been easy!
I have spent last 10 yrs worrying about this failure mode. Enough. the parts to fix this right are available if $$$ Good luck
Old 12-09-2016 | 03:56 PM
  #38  
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As an aircooled guy...

What causes the scoring in the 996 and boxster engines? Bad rings? Poor oiling? What?
Old 12-09-2016 | 04:22 PM
  #39  
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Default thank you for the

vote of confidence....best of luck in your quest...
Originally Posted by gpjli2
Without the sooty left pipe I would not worry about this.
Old 12-09-2016 | 05:06 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by bpu699
As an aircooled guy...

What causes the scoring in the 996 and boxster engines? Bad rings? Poor oiling? What?
#6 runs hotter and receives poorer coolant flow. Block and head materials expand at different rates. Block rigidity is suspect. Cylinder lining material wears poorly. Did I leave anything out?
Old 12-09-2016 | 05:33 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by gpjli2
#6 runs hotter and receives poorer coolant flow. Block and head materials expand at different rates. Block rigidity is suspect. Cylinder lining material wears poorly. Did I leave anything out?
Forged aluminum pistons heat up and expand faster than the cast aluminum cylinders. The forged grain structure somehow allows for a faster heat transfer. I read somewhere that early boxsters with cast pistons didn't have issues with bore scoring. ( Yes, only some cars suffer from this )

Last edited by rherring; 12-09-2016 at 05:49 PM.
Old 12-09-2016 | 05:43 PM
  #42  
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Seems to be a crap shoot, some cars develop it some don't. Colder climates seem to have an influence.
Old 12-09-2016 | 07:40 PM
  #43  
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Its the differential expansion as the pistons/cylinder walls heat up as rherring mentions. Only true solution is to reline the cylinders

Its not always #6 cylinder. Mine was #4

I think there are a lot of cars out there with this issue but it just hasn't become too apparent yet. On some cars it will, on some it wont but every car has this inherent flaw as they all have the same piston/cylinder construction
Old 12-09-2016 | 07:50 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Lvt19672
Seems to be a crap shoot, some cars develop it some don't. Colder climates seem to have an influence.
Think of the huge thermal swings inside the motor compared to the changes in ambient temps. More than that going on imo. But extreme weather might hasten the process
Old 12-10-2016 | 12:25 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Ben Z
I can't tell you what to do OP, only what I did, which was get an RND engine. Offing the car knowing it had a serious issue was not an option for me ethically. Buying a used engine I felt was a crapshoot. No doubt there are fine indie shops out there who can do a fine rebuild. The problem is, all shops will probably tell you they can. If you do consider having an indie rebuild it, I suggest printing out the list off RND's website of all the things they do to their engines, and make sure the indie will do the same. I did that, and got told that many things were overkill...yet the cost from the indie was the same. I see nothing wrong with overkill, especially when it doesn't cost any more than the bare essentials? One thing I can say is RND and SSF (the company in charge of sales and distribution) have some of the most awesome customer service I've encountered in a really long time.
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