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Would prefer private party, if anyone knows of something available.
Thanks for the help!
There is too much to explain here, but if these are your considerations, I suggest you research the differences between 997.1s and 997.2s. Look at contemporary articles about the new 997-S models for 2009. The 2009 - 2011 cars enjoy a multitude of upgrades, most notably a completely new DFI engine with more power and no IMS. If that doesn't do it for you, they also have satellite, not DVD, navigation, and no twelve button phone keypad on the head unit.
I think you can wait and find a better deal if you are going to do a 997.1
You should be able to get one with under 40,000 miles for right around 40k
Originally Posted by Darkhorse
There is too much to explain here, but if these are your considerations, I suggest you research the differences between 997.1s and 997.2s. Look at contemporary articles about the new 997-S models for 2009. The 2009 - 2011 cars enjoy a multitude of upgrades, most notably a completely new DFI engine with more power and no IMS. If that doesn't do it for you, they also have satellite, not DVD, navigation, and no twelve button phone keypad on the head unit.
I did see a couple of reviews for the 997.2 - and that one is the first choice. Although, the hardest part was finding any reviews that didn't focus on PDK trans. Most 997.2 cars I have seen for sale are outside of my price range.
I did see a couple of reviews for the 997.2 - and that one is the first choice. Although, the hardest part was finding any reviews that didn't focus on PDK trans. Most 997.2 cars I have seen for sale are outside of my price range.
Thanks!
Yeah, you're right, the journalists all seemed enthralled with the PDK. Have you seen Jay Leno's Garage video of a 2009 997 S on YouTube? The car has a PDK, but he's not a big fan; he loves the car otherwise. If you're willing to wait a little while, this winter may see 997.2 prices come down a bit. I have noticed temporary downward price fluctuations in January and February during several years, including early 2017. I have bought three sports cars during the winter and found the prices on all rose again in the spring. Good luck! Either way you go, the 997s are wonderful cars.
I can understand the dealers generating service revenue on the back end, but why are they incentivized to CPO the cars up front? Is it a big picture marketing move to help the brand retain resale value?
The CPO warranty from Porsche is not cheap for the dealer. They have to have enough room in the car to pay the shop bill for the CPO check out. Enough room to pay for whatever the shop finds that needs to be brought up to CPO spec. They need to pay Porsche for the CPO warranty. I have never seen a car go through the shop for a CPO check and come back saying the car needs nothing at all. Even if it did, the shop still makes a couple hours of labor to do the check which goes to the cost of the car for sales.
And only one owner. Not a lot of interior pics, but looks clean from what we can see. I wonder if CPO is something that can be negotiated with the dealer?
Originally Posted by NorthCoastDoug
I can understand the dealers generating service revenue on the back end, but why are they incentivized to CPO the cars up front? Is it a big picture marketing move to help the brand retain resale value?
Yeah, much of the CPO process is a mystery to me, do dealers ever give the buyer two prices, one w/ CPO warranty and one without?
Porsche frowns upon the practice of pricing a car with and without the CPO. Typically if its listed as a CPO it really needs to be sold as a CPO.
There is not much mystery in CPO. When a dealer buys a car or takes one in for trade, they send it through the shop for a CPO check. That check costs them usually $350 to $500. Then they assess the cost of what it will need to pass CPO, add in the cost of the CPO warranty from Porsche and then decide whether there is enough room left over to market the car as a CPO and still make a profit.
I am selling my 2009 C4, 6MT! I drove a C2S and realized I preferred the RWD feel over the C4 as a fun weekend car. With that said, whomever gets this will get a GEM of a car. I bought it 3 months ago in a private party transaction from a PCA member (you may have seen his posts over at 6SpdO). I have all service records, all stock parts, and the car is in gorgeous shape for being driving on a regular basis. All maintenance up to date. He said he waxed it every 3 months, it has never seen a car wash, the clearcoat is free of spider lines or marks. Cosmetically, the only issues are a few rock chips (car does not have Xpel) and some wear on the bolster (driver's side) a bit of wear on the leather E-brake handle. Bumper scrapes on the front (you can see where it was touched up there) but nothing out of the ordinary for a 33k mile car. I would say my 991 with 12k miles had 2/3 the rock chips and scrapes up front. Both the interior and exterior are solid 9/10. Arctic Silver metallic. Car really is ready to roll, it was last serviced at the dealer in March, clutch has a lot of life left. It was a DD, the owner upgraded to a 991 Turbo. The car simply is stunning, and I wouldn't be selling it if it weren't for this C2S falling into my lap. Priced at $47,500
10/2008
VIN: WP0AA29989S706519
Price:
$93,290.00
Exterior:
Arctic Silver Metallic
Interior:
Black Standard Leather
Warranty Start:
March 26, 2010
Additional Equipment
267
Self Dimming Mirrors
342
Heated Front Seats
446
Wheel Caps with Colored Crest
603
Dynamic Cornering Lights
619
Bluetooth Phone Interface
640
Sport Chrono Package Plus
672
Navigation Module for PCM
680
Bose High End Sound Package
810
Floor Mats in Interior Color
870
Universal Audio Interface
AN
Black Standard Leather
EPT
Extended Payment Terms Indicator
P15
Pwr Comfort Seats w/Driver Mem
X1
Arctic Silver Metallic
Mods:
Precision Porsche GT3 wing (stock decklid included)
Vossen 20" wheels (stock 18's included)
integrated laser detector (wired to accept Valentine/Escort radar unit)
Bilstien B8 and H&R springs (stock suspension included); I installed that setup 500 miles ago
Gundo Hack mufflers
The car gets positive comments and raves EVERY time I drive it. Also at least one thumbs-up. It really is stunning. I know the wing isn't for everyone, but it looks awesome with the widebody C4. The suspension is a definite "must" upgrade: the car is so much more compliant on rough roads but much tighter feeling in the twisties over the stock suspension. The B8's were specifically built with this car in mind. It's a firm but sporty ride. The wheels do look great on there, but I know some people like stock.
I have at at $47,500 if anyone is interested. I am not taking offers, as the local specialty consignment place can sell it for low 50's and net me $47,500. Just thought I would throw it up here for an enthusiast to grab first. I will have the car through the 22nd, then it will be gone. I would love to keep it, buy my fiance' is sold on her M4 and has no interest in this being her DD.
Yeah, much of the CPO process is a mystery to me, do dealers ever give the buyer two prices, one w/ CPO warranty and one without?
No. Dealers do make $$$ off the CPO process and can sell car at paper front end gross loss and still make $$$s.
Obviously the warranty is important, but the condition of a CPO car may be the biggest factor.
This is almost like asking if the dealer will have two prices for the same car: (1) for it in perfect condition with new everything; or (2) will they pull new tires, brakes, rotors and etc. off, replace them with old worn parts and sell it for a cheap wholesale price.
Candidly, the car used market has gotten so competitive and tight on the auction/wholesale side, you can get can CPO, perfect cars from dealers for the same or similar price (sometimes lower) that you can being a needy, used hunk of auction junk that finds its way to Carmax or smaller dealers. Dealers get first pick of lease turn ins and will keep the good ones and the crap no one wants lands in auction.
No. Dealers do make $$$ off the CPO process and can sell car at paper front end gross loss and still make $$$s.
Obviously the warranty is important, but the condition of a CPO car may be the biggest factor.
This is almost like asking if the dealer will have two prices for the same car: (1) for it in perfect condition with new everything; or (2) will they pull new tires, brakes, rotors and etc. off, replace them with old worn parts and sell it for a cheap wholesale price.
Candidly, the car used market has gotten so competitive and tight on the auction/wholesale side, you can get can CPO, perfect cars from dealers for the same or similar price (sometimes lower) that you can being a needy, used hunk of auction junk that finds its way to Carmax or smaller dealers. Dealers get first pick of lease turn ins and will keep the good ones and the crap no one wants lands in auction.
The only dollars the dealer makes off the CPO process are the dollars the shop makes for the check out, the dollars the parts department makes off whatever the car needs and the dollars the shop makes off putting those parts on or doing whatever general maintenance the car needs to pass the CPO process.
The used car market is ridiculously tight. In the 90's I used to go to Manhiem auctions once or twice a year with a buddy who was a dealer. I would pick up a car and drive it for 6 months or so and sell it. The spread on a 50 or 60k car wholesale to retail back then was measured in thousands of dollars. These days you're lucky if its a grand.
As Doug said, the cars we can buy from the Porsche off lease auction as a Porsche dealer are typically the better ones. Once all the dealers have passed on the car then it gets sent to the general dealer wholesale auction. Further, the dealer where the car is turned in gets first crack and therefore the really good ones dont even make it to Porsche auction.
Doug, as you probably know there is a separation between sales and service/parts on the dealers balance sheet and in the real world. The sales side is not going to sell cars at a loss so the service side can make a little money. I'd rather sell a car non CPO for a profit than take a loss on the sales side just so the service makes a little money. Yea we'll do that but losing on the sale typically hurts the bottom line more than the little bit of service / parts helps the bottom line. Don't forge the people who work on the sales side get paid on the sales bottom line not the parts/service side.
When a potential CPO car comes in either trade, off lease purchase or auction purchase, sales sends it to the shop for an estimate of cost to CPo. That amount plus what the dealer has to pay Porsche for the CPO warranty are factors in whether or not they buy the car off lease or decide to sell it with the CPO, or even pass on it. Consider this. If a 911 comes in off lease or trade in, if it needs just tires and brakes, forget it. The cost to CPO it will far exceed your ability to price it competitively in the market. Figure at least 3 grand just to do tires, pads, sensors. Then you're going to do an oil service or a major service if its due too, just to get the car to pass CPO spec. In that scenario you're into the car for 4 grand before you detail it, fill it with gas and pay the vig to ownership on the car, and then pay Porsche for the CPO. Good luck trying to find a car you can sink all that into and still make a profit selling it. You need to be very sharp buying cars for CPO and still make money.
The only dollars the dealer makes off the CPO process are the dollars the shop makes for the check out, the dollars the parts department makes off whatever the car needs and the dollars the shop makes off putting those parts on or doing whatever general maintenance the car needs to pass the CPO process.
The used car market is ridiculously tight. In the 90's I used to go to Manhiem auctions once or twice a year with a buddy who was a dealer. I would pick up a car and drive it for 6 months or so and sell it. The spread on a 50 or 60k car wholesale to retail back then was measured in thousands of dollars. These days you're lucky if its a grand.
As Doug said, the cars we can buy from the Porsche off lease auction as a Porsche dealer are typically the better ones. Once all the dealers have passed on the car then it gets sent to the general dealer wholesale auction. Further, the dealer where the car is turned in gets first crack and therefore the really good ones dont even make it to Porsche auction.
Doug, as you probably know there is a separation between sales and service/parts on the dealers balance sheet and in the real world. The sales side is not going to sell cars at a loss so the service side can make a little money. I'd rather sell a car non CPO for a profit than take a loss on the sales side just so the service makes a little money. Yea we'll do that but losing on the sale typically hurts the bottom line more than the little bit of service / parts helps the bottom line. Don't forge the people who work on the sales side get paid on the sales bottom line not the parts/service side.
When a potential CPO car comes in either trade, off lease purchase or auction purchase, sales sends it to the shop for an estimate of cost to CPo. That amount plus what the dealer has to pay Porsche for the CPO warranty are factors in whether or not they buy the car off lease or decide to sell it with the CPO, or even pass on it. Consider this. If a 911 comes in off lease or trade in, if it needs just tires and brakes, forget it. The cost to CPO it will far exceed your ability to price it competitively in the market. Figure at least 3 grand just to do tires, pads, sensors. Then you're going to do an oil service or a major service if its due too, just to get the car to pass CPO spec. In that scenario you're into the car for 4 grand before you detail it, fill it with gas and pay the vig to ownership on the car, and then pay Porsche for the CPO. Good luck trying to find a car you can sink all that into and still make a profit selling it. You need to be very sharp buying cars for CPO and still make money.
I don't know the exact numbers the dealer makes off the certification process, but it is more than one might think and it is about the same or more than they typically make off front end gross which ain't crap these days.
The CPO paper loss on the front end sales side is a bone of contention for a lot of sales staff. For instance, one company with a lot of dealerships pay different per car flat rates based on ability to hold front end gross. CPO cars are typically shown as a loss on front end gross which could bring down a sales person's per car rate for all cars sold that month as margins are so tight anyway. The so called rub is that dealership is actually making money off the CPO process so it is not far to penalize the front of the house by showing the sale as a paper loss.
So . . . the net savings or profit depending upon the way you look at it to the dealership may be better off the CPO showing as paper front end gross loss versus non-CPO sold at typical $500 to $1,000 profit.
A BMW GSM was trying to hire my wife to run the back of the house/finance side of a new a dealership recently. They had run 240 cars through that month, but the front-end profit per car was shockingly low to virtually non-existent. Back-end is a little better, but service . . . it is all about service dollars these days.
I do know the exact numbers....No dealers are selling CPO cars at a loss on unit to capture the gross in the certification process. Thats simply a business model that does not work. I also haven't touched on what it costs you in sales expense, commission, markets etc etc. If you are not making money on the front end of a CPO sale after your costs from shop etc etc you're not going to CPO the car. The per copy front end gross on a CPO Porsche is typically a couple grand, at least in my region. I doubt its a whole lot more in others and some its less.
If a car needs tires to pass CPO, thats a huge expense to sales, and service does not make a whole lot. Tires are tires and there is not much margin in the tires themselves. Your service department is not marking up tires huge on the sales department. Service does charge you 4 bucks a tire to mount and balance and the only expense they have against that is the labor so thats a winner. Brakes are similar except service has parts carry costs as an additional expense.
New cars are a lot different, especially non Porsche. BMW, Audi etc etc all pay huge incentives to the dealers behind the line that the consumer never sees. Porsche does not do that.
07-14-2017, 10:13 AM
2009 is a very different car
