96PCarrera993mg

If the Yelp system can be manipulated by dealers than YELP is NOT a credible source for dealer feedback.

bzliteyear

yelp can "tweak" some reviews if vendor is a $5k/yr paying "customer." however, that just helps them weed out suspicious reviews...guys who are legit(with solid prior history of reviews) would be difficult to delete.
PL

iammulva

I'm not defending Yelp because I have read stories about their model and don't believe it to be as objective as the average person might assume, but to be fair, if you don't have firsthand experience with a business, I don't think you should be posting a review for that business.

96PCarrera993mg

So, what you are saying is if a vendor is paying $5K/yr. they have the right to manipulate feedback because it has a negative connotation? There's something wrong with the Yelp service if that's the case. How do you determine or weed out suspicious reviews? A review is a review and it's not correlated to particular sale event, how can you tell that reviews are not real when the reviewers are not required to use their entire real name or picture for proper ID? INHO this service is flawed.

96PCarrera993mg

I agree!

bzliteyear

yelp is automated(to flag strange reviews from 1st-timers who are extreme 5 or 1-stars) and the ceo won't reveal algorithm, so the $5k/yr is to have somebody from yelp manually look into it to "fix" the issues. i'm not a fan of yelp as a company, and i believe this is legalized modern day extortion, but that's just me. that said, i do use it more now to read what the 1-star people have to say before i make any big purchases.
PL

Iceter

Yet that's exactly what they do. Each store's service department establishes its own interpretation of Porsche's certification process. Porsche can't inspect every car--they leave that up to the tech and his manager. The only trouble that the store can get into is if they certify a car that comes back for a covered repair and Porsche denies the claim so the store has to eat the repair on its own dime. That's the downside risk, and it's a very small risk. Obviously, BHP values a sale more than that potential downside risk.

...And it works for them. Just look at Lozzy. They haven't expended a minute or a dime to deal with this issue, while it's eaten up days of Lozzy's valuable time. We see him getting discouraged, we see his attorney walking away and BHP has done exactly nothing to fight him.

I know from experience that the cosmetic aspecs of the CPO are open to interpretation. My '09 had some serious cosmetic issues. I'll venture to say they were much worse than Lozzy's car. The difference is that the salesman communicated them to me, sent me pics and then close-ups when I asked for them and he and I negotiated those issues into the price. Once he was sure that I was fully informed of the issues and he could document that I was aware of them, AND I was comfortable that I was adequately compensated for the issues, THEN they certified the car because mechanically, it tested out ok and they knew by that point that I had no cause to complain about undisclosed issues.

So here's undeniable evidence that the CPO is almost completely open to interpretation. You can dwell on the verbiage in Porsche's press packet as much as you like. A dealership can certify almost any car that it wants to. That's a fact.

I agree with you and that's outcome number 4. The attorney takes the case on contingency, goes through the first few steps in the hope that the store settles and when it does not, the attorney drops the client because he knows that the client does not have a case. I think that's what he did, knowing that there wasn't a case to begin with. The lawyer must not have pursued many cases against dealerships, as even I know that any dealership's first course of action is to wait it out.

This development is the most discouraging to me because it indicates that Lozzy doesn't really have a legal leg to stand on, which is frustrating but entirely possible. It's also going to make it difficult if Lozzy wants to retain another attorney because the first item of discussion will be that the first one he hired walked away. Not a good start to any case.

As much as I believe Lozzy was flamboozled, I wholeheartedly agree with this statement.

beden1

Yes, I do realize that. But, I would have been interested to see how many owners the car had and what performed services had been listed. Carfax is usually good for this information.

Also, I would want to know where the car had come from and where it resided. The car looks like it went through the mill. This could have been storm damage in NJ/NY or from TX.

96PCarrera993mg

I've already asked Lozzy for the VIN so we can dig up all kinds of data on his vehicle, however, he opted not to divulge that info., and he doesn't have to, case closed.

sandwedge

And why is that? Because PCNA doesn't have the backbone and integrity to stand behind its own marketing promises? If individual dealerships are allowed to play fast and loose with the standards for CPO cars, wouldn't it make sense for PCNA to remove its CPO criteria from their website and instead refer to each dealership's internal CPO policy that they would be required to draft and publish? As it stands now, the whole CPO gimmick seems to border on fraud and deception since the standards advertised clearly can be violated by individual dealers without consequence.

SnP

BHP sucks and Lozzy won't fight the good fight.

This thread is just a bunch if foolishness piled up in bits and bytes.

Ynot

And I don't blame him, he did as much damage to BHP reputation as he can. I certainly wouldn't go near that dealer for any future purchased. And anyone who asked for my opinion about BHP would not get my recommendation. He is fighting a losing battle, it's easy for us to sit back in front of my computer screen and say fight, fight, fight. In reality it's frustrating and you'll never move on until you stop thinking about it. Think of it as a business venture gone wrong, lost money in gambling, however you want to look at it. You live and learn, no one said living and learning is free.

sandwedge

I have to disagree. He bought a 100K car, promised to be "perfect" and certified to the highest of standards as specified by PCNA. Start a new business or sit down at a craps table and there won't be any guarantees or promises of anything last I heard.

PV=nRT

I don't want to steal Lozzy's thunder, but the driving to PCNA to get action is a been there, done that for me. I am currently told that I am no longer wanted as a Porsche customer. Why? I was sold two lemon Porsches back to back and I wasn't grateful. Here's a very brief outline:

I PPI'd a 2012 demo cpo at Jim Ellis in 2012. They had VERY poorly sprayed over damage on the right, front bumper. I required that to be brought back to factory quality and the car to be structurally inspected. They put in writing, Its Perfect. Price was reduced and I bought it. Then at 2.5 months from purchase SEVERE handling problems began. At 3.5 months from purchase, and after multiple trips for service when I got only "Its fine" and charged for an alignment, four in a couple of weeks, the FRAME BROKE IN TWO AND THE FRONT OF THE CAR CAME OFF!!!!! Besides a curb rub injury when Jim Ellis had it, my Porsche also had grossly DEFECTIVE original WELDS in its aluminum frame. Though I didn't wreck, the severe handling problem resulted in an injury that required surgery.




The first photo shows my car being pulled from the roadside after the frame rails broke from the bumper assembly causing the front of the car to break off. After 4 days of pleading, PCNA had finally sent a rollback wrecker to get the car when I told them it was absolutely unsafe to drive despite the four trips in for service at Porsche dealers in the last two weeks. When an attempt was made to properly load the car onto the rollback via the tow hook. The frame failed and the bulk of the car shot off the wrecker, down a small hill and into the roadside ditch. Part of the frame rail connections and the bumper assembly stayed on the wrecker.

The second photo is a close up of one of the defective welds. The last photo is the car as it has been stored since last October--- waiting and waiting and waiting for PCNA to come to their senses.

That happened in Oct. 2012, I justed wanted my car replaced and coverage of med expenses, which I never even got to the point of discussing. PCNA said they would replace the car but kept coming up with complications and delays. The best of which is requiring me to sign an Acceptance of Offer to Repurchase that has little to no terms and says terms will be provided once I sign the agreement. You can see the problem there, you must accept terms you don't get to know until after you accept. Ridiculous. I met with PCNA in Atlanta several times. The first time, the guy refused to even come out of his office to talk to me. Second time was a little better.

So in desperate need of a car, I trusted Porsche again and bought another while things were, I hoped, being worked out. I got a new 2013. -Also auto engineers I had hired had said weld process was different on the following year model based on reviewing a car from that year.

That car was a problem from the get go. Poor power, hesitated, steering wheel out of alignment with drivers seat, nav didn't work right........ Turns out the car went through Hurricane Sandy at a MA dealer than was transferred to dealer in south. I wasn't told this little fact. Despite taking the car in for service and updating SA, the car's power train deteriorated and died within three months of purchase. Then when they came to transport the thing, the guy throw 2 J hooks with chains on the lower control arms and blasted off. I tried to stop him but could not.

After 4 intense months of discussions, the dealer had my car this whole time and I had to rent a car, I finally got them to get the car on a lift and saw significant damage from the improper tow. They and PCNA had put in writing the car had no visible damage but refused to let me inspect it. They had continually pressured me to pick it up sight unseen, that included a written notice they would auction the car as abandoned. Still having my very visual first Porsche disaster, I told them it would soon be circling their dealership on a trailer complete with signs about the defective welds. Finally the dealer is in the process of buying the car back, though I'm still out over 10 k in rental cost, etc. and have to go out and find a new car again. I'm also still out a $100k on the first car as well.

It's time for a major wake up call to PCNA. That call seems to be building on many fronts. The only reason I am trying to stick with Porsche is I absolutely love the people in the Porsche community.

PV=nRT

You may have hit another P tactic there. I had a similar experience on my second Porsche. The attorney had all the info and accepted my $5,000 retainer, then he sent a letter to the dealer in question and had supposedly set up one meeting to which the P dealer folks didn't show. He was one mad attorney after the no show. Then suddenly he advises me to pick up my car as P dealer ask without inspecting improper tow damage. He said we would deal with it later. He suddenly could not do enough to get me to do everything the dealer wanted.

I strongly disagreed with him. Once I took that car back without inspection, I would never be able to prove when it was damaged and who did it. I politely let him go and handled it myself. I was fired up at that point even more and ready to get very agressive in solving at least the second part of my 220,000 + dollars that are down the toilet with Porsche products at this time. (I am still waiting on the check for the 2013 car but transfer docs have been signed as well as the straight forward repurchase agreement I worked out with the dealer).

One other tidbit, I had filed part of my Lemon Law paperwork on car one right before things went south with the dealer on the second car. Until that point, though the second car was obviously a lemon, that dealership had treated me well for the most part. They did completely miss the impending catastrophic failure on the first car's frame, which they should have recognized given the accumulated service history and very apparent symptoms of serious frame issues. They also sold me a car they knew was from the area impacted by Hurricane Sandy and was on the ground there during that storm. But other then that they actually had really shined in the quite dim world of car dealers. Was the southerly tac they veered onto related to pressure by PCNA to try and wear me down more by making me deal with two huge problems and not just the one bad car? Without depositions, I'm sure I'll never know.

My former attorney I suspect suddendly found some nice juicy, long term legal work for the dealership' parent company or P. Just my thoughts on it, take it for what little it's worth.

This forum's support for you Lozzy is incredibly heart warming, but you need to hit BHP where they live. This forum has a lot of potential BHP customers but not anywhere as many as at their dealership and in Beverly Hills itself. Get some well down graphics on the car pointing out the issues and drive around the road the dealership is on or uses for test drives, also try high volume local hangouts that attract BHP's target customers, etc.. Parking the car near the above roads and stuff is also a route to go.

I would only recommend such public action in cases where all other mature, reasoned and diplomatic attempts fail. Hurting a company's image is a serious matter and should never be done for minor problems or if you aren't absolutely sure the company in question is not a habitual abuser of its customers. As has been stated many times in this thread, problems will happen, it's how they are handled that is important. BHP gets a zero in handling problems.

I have been in your shoes for 11 months now and know the stress, frustration and incredible drain this is on every aspect of your life. You and I are really fighting for ALL Porsche owners to receive fair treatment and to receive what they have spent very hard earned money on. At least my money was hard to earn and I expect something for it when spent. Some Porsche owners are treated very well, I won't argue with that, but Porsche and its dealers can't choose to delivery proper goods and service to only SOME of its customers. If its a crap shoot buying a Porsche, that will eventually destroy the company. That is a company we all want to have around for along time, but not with it's current strategies for dealing with customer who have experienced problems.

Lozzy, keep up your stamina and take a quick trip as above. See if it helps. It's vital that Porsche owners unite and begin sharing the strategies that dealers and PCNA use agaisnt us AND that together we develop effective counter strategies. In the end, this will make PCNA and it's dealers better companies whose chances for long term success are far greater and hopefully it will make our Porsche ownership experience closer to their advertised ideals.