My poor car
08-19-2013, 05:05 PM
#541
Actually I'm a lady hazardous materials specialists. A lot of my projects involve the ideal gas law with some imbalance of the P, V, T relationships - it's not so bad on paper, but in the real world it gets messy.
My niche seems to be weird stuff other's don't want to mess with - like an encased 1,500 lb block of a metallic sodium getting wet
. The water causes a sudden, significant volume of hydrogen to develop - source of the boom in high school sodium antics. Add the sodium block being used as a radiation shield for an adjacent experimental nuclear reactor and I get hired and entertained
to boot.
Even the little weld problem in my car comes back, in part, to PV=nRT (temperature-solubility relationships of hydrogen and aluminum, which is why I was thinking of the above project).
My niche seems to be weird stuff other's don't want to mess with - like an encased 1,500 lb block of a metallic sodium getting wet
. The water causes a sudden, significant volume of hydrogen to develop - source of the boom in high school sodium antics. Add the sodium block being used as a radiation shield for an adjacent experimental nuclear reactor and I get hired and entertained to boot. Even the little weld problem in my car comes back, in part, to PV=nRT (temperature-solubility relationships of hydrogen and aluminum, which is why I was thinking of the above project).
08-19-2013, 05:43 PM
#542
Actually I'm a lady hazardous materials specialists. A lot of my projects involve the ideal gas law with some imbalance of the P, V, T relationships - it's not so bad on paper, but in the real world it gets messy.
My niche seems to be weird stuff other's don't want to mess with - like an encased 1,500 lb block of a metallic sodium getting wet. The water causes a sudden, significant volume of hydrogen to develop - source of the boom in high school sodium antics. Add the sodium block being used as a radiation shield for an adjacent experimental nuclear reactor and I get hired and entertained to boot.
Even the little weld problem in my car comes back, in part, to PV=nRT (temperature-solubility relationships of hydrogen and aluminum, which is why I was thinking of the above project).
My niche seems to be weird stuff other's don't want to mess with - like an encased 1,500 lb block of a metallic sodium getting wet
. The water causes a sudden, significant volume of hydrogen to develop - source of the boom in high school sodium antics. Add the sodium block being used as a radiation shield for an adjacent experimental nuclear reactor and I get hired and entertained to boot. Even the little weld problem in my car comes back, in part, to PV=nRT (temperature-solubility relationships of hydrogen and aluminum, which is why I was thinking of the above project).
08-19-2013, 06:33 PM
#543
Drifting
OK, I'll bite again. Are you a lady that deals with hazardous materials, or a hazardous materials specialist that deals with ladies? Before I retired, I was involved with hazardous materials also, in my case, radioactive materials. We licensed and regulated the safe use of them. Sorry for highjacking the thread, but the PV=nRT got my attention.
08-20-2013, 01:36 AM
#544
.
08-20-2013, 02:11 AM
#545
OK, I'll bite again. Are you a lady that deals with hazardous materials, or a hazardous materials specialist that deals with ladies? Before I retired, I was involved with hazardous materials also, in my case, radioactive materials. We licensed and regulated the safe use of them. Sorry for highjacking the thread, but the PV=nRT got my attention.
I've worked many more chemical incidents than ones involving radioactives. You and your peers have done a good job keeping the "glowing stuff" out of trouble and well tended.
Assisting with some planning and "what if" tasks, I had the opportunity to see a spent fuel pool at a nuclear reactor site and play a bit at the NTS near Vegas. The spent fuel pool was truly one of the most beautiful things I have seen. Though it would be short lived, the pool nearly tempted you to jump into it with the extreme clarity of the water and incredible colors coming off the fuel. Your work had to have been very interesting. I'm sure you must miss it.
As I said in a previous post, the Porsche community has really amazing and interesting people. I haven't been in it very long but I have been surprised how many people I have run into that are in similar or related fields. It really adds to the ownership experience.
08-20-2013, 12:05 PM
#546
Three Wheelin'
If a dealer tries to get reimbursed on a warranty item that it should have caught under the CPO inspection, Porsche will not pay for that item and the burden falls on the dealership to make it right. This makes adherence to the PCO standards not so important to Porsche as they are not financially responsible when a dealership CPOs a car that they should not have. All Porsche has to do is say no.
And they do say no, all the time. All of the warranty groups for all of the major manufacturers have a somewhat adversarial relationship with their respective dealer group. The dealership wants the mfr to pay for repairs and labor while the mfr wants the dealership or the customer to pay. It's the natural order of things.
Like we've heard, it's all about how a store handles a problem, not what it promises upfront. If a store CPOs a car and misses something or something pops up that was outside of their control, and Porsche declines to pay for the item, a good store should foot the bill for the repair as long as the item is a covered item.
BUT, as I mentioned before, many stores bend the rules on a CPO knowing that statistically, whatever they gloss over or miss will probably not become a problem over the course of the warranty period. Whatever DOES surface, they will send in to Porsche in the hopes that it is covered. If Porsche covers it, fine. If Porsche denies the warranty, then the dealership is on the hook but you can bet that before they pay, they will try some way of getting out of paying the warranty claim--"it's a wear item", "it's not covered under the terms of the warranty", "this is customer abuse or misuse", etc.
If the customer presses the issue, the store might offer a partial payment. Only as a last resort will the store pay out of pocket for a warranty item that the mfr declines to pay.
Or, in the case of Beverly Hills Porsche, they will just ignore you, knowing that 99% of these customers will evaporate.
This is just SOP for lots and lots of stores.
And they do say no, all the time. All of the warranty groups for all of the major manufacturers have a somewhat adversarial relationship with their respective dealer group. The dealership wants the mfr to pay for repairs and labor while the mfr wants the dealership or the customer to pay. It's the natural order of things.
Like we've heard, it's all about how a store handles a problem, not what it promises upfront. If a store CPOs a car and misses something or something pops up that was outside of their control, and Porsche declines to pay for the item, a good store should foot the bill for the repair as long as the item is a covered item.
BUT, as I mentioned before, many stores bend the rules on a CPO knowing that statistically, whatever they gloss over or miss will probably not become a problem over the course of the warranty period. Whatever DOES surface, they will send in to Porsche in the hopes that it is covered. If Porsche covers it, fine. If Porsche denies the warranty, then the dealership is on the hook but you can bet that before they pay, they will try some way of getting out of paying the warranty claim--"it's a wear item", "it's not covered under the terms of the warranty", "this is customer abuse or misuse", etc.
If the customer presses the issue, the store might offer a partial payment. Only as a last resort will the store pay out of pocket for a warranty item that the mfr declines to pay.
Or, in the case of Beverly Hills Porsche, they will just ignore you, knowing that 99% of these customers will evaporate.
This is just SOP for lots and lots of stores.
My question: I don't think that a CPO car needs to be serviced at a dealership that sells it as such. So, if you buy a CPO car long distance and, subsequently, it develops a problem you bring it to your local dealer. I assume the local dealer is bound to honor the CPO. But if the dealer you bought it from did a shoddy job on the certification then either you or the local dealer is on the hook if PCNA denies coverage. So wouldn't adherence to CPO standards be more closely regulated/monitored by PCNA to keep all their dealers from pawning off questionable cars to long distance buyers knowing that they get the profit from a CPO certification and never have to deal with the hassles of denied coverage?
08-20-2013, 12:37 PM
#547
Rennlist Member
My question: I don't think that a CPO car needs to be serviced at a dealership that sells it as such. So, if you buy a CPO car long distance and, subsequently, it develops a problem you bring it to your local dealer. I assume the local dealer is bound to honor the CPO. But if the dealer you bought it from did a shoddy job on the certification then either you or the local dealer is on the hook if PCNA denies coverage. So wouldn't adherence to CPO standards be more closely regulated/monitored by PCNA to keep all their dealers from pawning off questionable cars to long distance buyers knowing that they get the profit from a CPO certification and never have to deal with the hassles of denied coverage?
And that's a potential big problem with buying a CPO car from a distant dealer. If there's a problem and PCNA doesn't pay the warranty claim, you may have to take the car back to the selling dealer for the warranty work. That is, unless a local dealer would agree to fix it and be reimbursed by the selling dealer. I doubt that's likely.
I'm pretty well convinced that the best idea is to buy a car from an individual, see it in person, and have a local dealer or competent shop do a PPI on it.
08-20-2013, 04:41 PM
#548
Drifting
Dealerships decline warranty work under a certification program all the time for this very reason. Putting a CPO on a car that doesn't deserve it is an even more enticing prospect than if the car were to be kept local because the dealership knows it will not come back to haunt them.
I bought a certified Honda S2000 from a local Honda dealer. Within a couple hundred miles, the input shaft seal on the transmission started to leak. The dealership replaced it under the Honda CPO (or so they told me). Within another hundred miles, it blew out again. Dealership replaced it. Another hundred miles, another blowout. This time, I took it to another Honda store because the store where I bought it obviously didn't know what they were doing.
The second store bounced the car. They said Honda disputed the CPO coverage as the car apparently had a "history" and that the store where I bought the car should never have certified it. Said they wouldn't touch it and that the original store would have to make it right.
Original store picked it up, replaced the transmission and the issue went away. Service writer told me the store had worked it out with Honda and put a new transmission in it. Of course, he lied. Tech told me they had installed a used transmission on the store's dime.
The car wound up being great otherwise and I had no other problems, but if I had, I would have had to have taken it to the original store because Honda would probably have denied any claims.
Now, if I had purchased that car long-distance, I don't know how Honda would have handled this. From the customer's perspective, the CPO is a Honda thing, not a dealership thing. All I know is that the store where I bought that car is still selling Hondas and certifying used ones. Obviously, the fact that they certified a not-certifiable car didn't have any long-term effect on their relationship with Honda.
I bought a certified Honda S2000 from a local Honda dealer. Within a couple hundred miles, the input shaft seal on the transmission started to leak. The dealership replaced it under the Honda CPO (or so they told me). Within another hundred miles, it blew out again. Dealership replaced it. Another hundred miles, another blowout. This time, I took it to another Honda store because the store where I bought it obviously didn't know what they were doing.
The second store bounced the car. They said Honda disputed the CPO coverage as the car apparently had a "history" and that the store where I bought the car should never have certified it. Said they wouldn't touch it and that the original store would have to make it right.
Original store picked it up, replaced the transmission and the issue went away. Service writer told me the store had worked it out with Honda and put a new transmission in it. Of course, he lied. Tech told me they had installed a used transmission on the store's dime.
The car wound up being great otherwise and I had no other problems, but if I had, I would have had to have taken it to the original store because Honda would probably have denied any claims.
Now, if I had purchased that car long-distance, I don't know how Honda would have handled this. From the customer's perspective, the CPO is a Honda thing, not a dealership thing. All I know is that the store where I bought that car is still selling Hondas and certifying used ones. Obviously, the fact that they certified a not-certifiable car didn't have any long-term effect on their relationship with Honda.
08-21-2013, 07:27 PM
#549
Track Day
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: worcester ma
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just awful, black List BHP. Read the entire post, they wore Lozzy997 into the ground. All the Porsche PR took a big hit in my book. Now when I walk into my glittering Porsche dealership I see expensive sleez, hidden for sure. Trod
Last edited by Trod; 08-21-2013 at 07:34 PM. Reason: Spelling
08-22-2013, 02:52 PM
#551
I'm still here, been on the road with work. I think if PCNA and BHP don't care about the minor impact this has on their image and reputation then I don't really have much recourse. I have filed with the various consumer agencies and I will continue to be an annoyance but at the end of the day it's just been an expensive lesson. Interestingly I'm looking for a daily driver and considered a P car for a nanosecond but then decided I'll never buy Porsche again, so they've lost my custom, if they care.
08-22-2013, 03:09 PM
#553
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Posting your VIN attaches it to this thread. If you were trying to sell, a buyer will Google your VIN and mine for information. Reading this sorry tale might turn away a prospect for a car that may be "rehabilitated" by the time your trying to sell.
Just not a good idea...
Just not a good idea...
08-22-2013, 04:12 PM
#555
Hey it has a CPO so why not trade in. Go to your local dealer and give it a try and if they complain about condition and as to the CPO tell them to contact Porsche and report the issue!