ADias

The sonority of a NA notwithstanding, that's why I suggested a GT2 which bypasses the 4WD issues of the Turbo. But as you say... Turbo owners need 4WD for their survival.

Mike in CA

It's amazing how some folks just talk past each other without listening. Happens everywhere else, so shouldn't be surprised it happens here in this forum.

I'm not criticizing the Turbo's handling, or it's steering feel, or it's power, or it's price. In fact, I'm not criticizing anything about it. It's an amazing car and it's performance surpasses the C2S in almost but not quite every way. OK?

My apologies. I know I've said this already but I'll try again too. In the real world of speed limits, other traffic, school zones, cops, radar, stoplights, road hazards, drunken idiots, etc. etc. I find myself frustrated that I can't reasonably use most of my existing car's 385HP. My own thinking is, if I can't use the horsepower I've already got, why spend big bucks to get even more? In that context, if someone asks me if there is a big difference between a PDK equipped Carrera S and a Turbo for the street I'll say no. For me, the Carrera is a perfect balance of power and feel without being over the top. There's a certain nuance to that opinion, I'll admit, but I was trying to be practical.

Now if the OP had said he wanted to track his car, my answer would have been different. And obviously my advice doesn't address the gratification that comes from just knowing you have the biggest and best. That's not a big deal with me, but I know it's part of the decision for many people.

I, for one, am not "railroading" you. I haven't called BS as you did, or called others "very special" as you did, or made other snide comments as you did in some of your previous (now apparently deleted) posts. I've read, understood, and responded to your points. I don't even really object to your advice about whether a Turbo is the best car for the street. It is, after all, your opinion. I do think it odd that you object so strenuously to any opinion on this issue that differs from yours, as though it diminishes the choice that you made in some way. I'm pretty sure the point I'm making has at least some validity, and it's not the "classic" one you keep referring to.

Kuhan

Time for this thread to be closed IMHO...

LlBr

I made ZERO snide characterizations of specific individual people here! Are you calling me stupid? (joking about the stupid part )

My point is back when I was researching trading in my 997S and buying a Turbo (for road use) the prevailing objection by NA 997 owners was the steering dymanics differences. As I said it made me "worry" I was going to miss out on something; made me worry I'd miss my 997S when the new TT luster wore off. Turned out to be absolute total BS.

Now somehow the issue opened up and gotta get back in there and call BS on it because it's what it is.

I'm calling guys who think those handling dynamics differences are important compared to the other HUGE features of the TT "very special." Yes, they're just not like the rest of us.

I wish somebody would have made that "very special" ascription for me back then. Back then it seemed like I might have been making a mistake trading a 997S for a TT. That was total BS.

A couple of guys in my office are following this and they're rolling their eyes too and think my "very special" characterization of those who push the 'steering issue' is clever and appropriate.

Who cares? This is crazy. For non-very-special guys who have a money-no-problem choice for a road car between a 997s or a Turbo: GET THE TURBO!

OH GEEZ! Somebody shoot me: I forgot to add IMO!

Bill_C4S

"Me thinks he (LiBr) doth protest too much."

Nugget

There is no confusion on what you meant and who you meant it about. Do you doubt that?

Everyone knows what your point is. You don't have to keep saying it. We all understand what you're saying.

My opinion is not BS no matter how many times you say that it is. My opinion is my opinion, just as valid as yours.

In other words: You are insulting me. I'm not upset about being insulted, I have a thicker skin than that, but it's tiresome when you keep denying that you're being insulting. Not naming a specific person doesn't change the nature of what you're saying. Only people with four-letter nicknames that have alternating capitalization are stupid enough to be confused about that.

And what's with "the rest of us?" Who is this "us" that nominated you to be their spokesperson? You speak for you, not the group. I assure you that you don't know how many people agree or disagree with your preference.

You obviously do.

LlBr

What if PERSON X was telling prospective ordinary everyday car-guy Turbo buyers that the light steering feel and dynamics of the 997S will likely be felt as a significant compromise when they get their Turbos and use them on the road?

Should I say PERSON X's opinion is "poppycock?" What else can I say. "BS" is cooler and more fun to use. It's poppycock because it runs totally counter to what I and most (99% ) Turbo-as-road-car converts experience.

Why take this personally?

I'm not taking this personally because I am not asking YOU you to give ME an apology for causing me to worry that I made the wrong decision while my TT was being built and my 997S days were numbered.

My point is again (stated a little differently for fun): Like all of ___us___ honest Turbo owners will say (except the "very special" ones ) on public roads the miniscule steering and handling dynamics differences which are lost by trading in our 997Ss are soon completely forgotten issues.

Anyway, I wish you well. I apologize for not being perfect. I'm glad you have a thick skin. On to other car-guy debates.

ADias

OK, let's get personal and direct, since that's what you are doing, and say it like it is. If you do not feel the driving dynamics differences (i.e., slower turn-in, higher initial rolling resistance, driving nimbleness, heavier front-end, heavier steering inputs) between a 997 S and a 997 TT, you are simply numb. Fact! You may dismiss the fact, and that is fine, but fact! Let's move on.

Nugget

1. What do you mean when you say "ordinary" and "everyday"? I assume you mean that I am neither of those things. What determines if someone is "ordinary" or "everyday?" Is it just that they agree with you? How can I tell if someone else is "ordinary, everyday" or if they're not?

2. Has anyone in this thread claimed that another person is "likely" or "not likely" to feel a compromise? (Answer: no)

Since nobody has said that, your hypothetical "What if?" doesn't seem to apply to this discussion.

So anyone who disagrees with you is either dishonest or "very special"?

LlBr

Good question, fair enough. You're asking me, the average non-tracking, non-idiot, Porsche enthusiast.

I drive on public highways and back roads. I must be numb because I can't feel anything that's less appealing except the lightweight flighty feel of the front end is gone when I push the car, endanger myself and break traffic laws.

The only big-deal differences in performance 'dynamics' I feel is when I put my foot to the floor. I definitely used to feel numb waiting for my 997.1S to accelerate.

ADias

Come to think of it, yeah, there may be some truth in calling those of us who appreciate the better things in life 'special'. Special in the sense of different from those who are numb to differences. Yes, some do not see a difference between a scalpel and an ax. Finesse for some, brute force for others. All is good!

LlBr

Yes! Come join us. Come over to the TT darkside.

Nugget

How do you know that your opinion is "average" or "normal?"

I'm not saying it isn't -- it might be. I honestly don't know. But why do you think it is?

LlBr

Yeah. I'm absolutely sure you can teach me a great deal if you were willing and I were to ever show up on a track.

On public roads? Gotta guess "finesse" is a code word for underpowered.

As far as your notion surrounding "better things in life?" WTF are you talking about? A little presumptuous don't you think?

Dont worry, I realize it's all just about debating tactics now.

Take care.

LlBr

Go to an active Turbo forum and ask if anybody misses their 997S.

I don't miss mine and that's considered normal.

I think that's a good way to answer your good question.