DJ23

I've owned both cars over the last five years. My 911S was a great car and I will always love it. Quick and nimble as has already been mentioned it truly was a thoroughbred on the road. My Turbo on the other hand, especially with the PDK, sport chrono and PTV combines all of this with more power and boost. It's personal preference. Both are Porsches, both are 911's. It all depends what you driving tastes desire. The debate here is truly mundane. The "P" in Porsche stands for perfection. It all depends on how you want to enjoy it.

Jay

JG 996T

but, the GT2 RS does.

(I suspect that the OP has no interest in the GT2 Rs, and apparently not much interest in this thread for that matter, but it is interesting that Porsche went back to the Metzger engine for its newest RS.)

LlBr

Nice railroading job on me here. Very embarassing for everybody actually.

Don't worry I'll say it again. This time I shout because I don't like being railroaded. Typical eventuality for these forums, huh?

This is my point again:

The classic criticism of the Turbo vs. the C2S is that the steering and handling dynamics differences are a BIG issue on the street.

IOW, those differences are crucial important "better-choose-wisely" differences to consider when guy is trying to decide between a TT and a C2S.

Most newcomers will hear this as, "if you want to be happy with 'better' steering and handling dynamics in your road car you should get the C2S."

That is suuuuuuuuch BS! Quit saying it!

That's like saying Milla Jovovich has a small mole on her butt cheek which will wreck your date with her.

When I still had my 997S and was waiting for my TT build I was "worried" the steering/handling of my new TT would be a disappointment compared to my 997S.

Nothing can be further from the truth! Where'd I get that BS worry? From guys saying it like it was a fact!

My point for the umpteenth time: quit spreading esoteric track facts about handling dynamics implying they are critical-to-consider, everyday world truisms for a Turbo vs. C2S used as road cars!

Thank you JESUS!

Nugget

Generally the guy reduced to spittle and shouting is the one with the weaker argument. The rest of us have been able to make our points using reason, facts, and opinions. You should give that a try some time.

My point for the umpteenth time: your personal preference is not universal. Other people's preferences are not "BS."

The TT weighs over 300lbs more than a C2S. If Milla had a growth on her *** that accounted for more than 10% of her body weight it might have an impact on your enjoyment of the date.

You keep claiming that the handling differences are "esoteric" but offer no support for this claim. Considerable evidence contradicts your bluster, namely that many people are able to discern the differences readily and prefer the lighter, RWD car. That's a fact. You don't have to share their preference, but it's a real, solid fact that people like that exist and they aren't wrong or full of BS or any of the other snide and insulting things you've said about them.

rickmdz

Interesting thread... It's a tricky question. I don't think we are comparing apples to apples. If money is no problem then the comparison should be TT vs GT3/RS. Then the debate on performance is pretty even, both accelerate about the same, 'Ring' times are almost the same, of course in the hands of sir Walter et al. For the rest of us I say it's irrelevant.
For me comes down to handling and feeling of NA vs turbo. Personally I like NA engines and many people do. The sound is better and for many that's very important, hence the huge exhaust aftermarket business. In my opinion, the true sports car should be NA, ever wondered why ferraris, lambos, paganis are all NA? I know there's a plan for a ferrari turbo but today they are all NA.

LlBr

Well my friend, your use of the word "generally" means there are exceptions.

Look more closely and learn I obviously am one of the exceptions.

BTW, Thanks for trying to insulting me personally.

LlBr

Oh yeah my friend?

When a guy tells you don't bother dating Milla Jojovitch because she has a small mole on her a** you can be pretty sure his preference (and the preferences of other people who share it) is total bullsh*t.

Thank you.

equiraptor

LlBr, women are not items. Stop treating us as such. Thanks.

Nugget

Yeah. Your analogy is poor, as I pointed out. The differences in handling between the C2S and the Turbo are larger and more impactful than a mole.

Why did all your previous posts in the thread get deleted? I went looking to refresh my memory of the numerous times in this thread that you insulted everyone who disagrees with you, but the posts are gone now. Did you do that?

LlBr

Me insulting? I don't think so. Nice try.

I made no insult aimed at any particular individual.

Example: I say Creationism is BS, but I don't think my Creationist cousin deserves to be insulted for thinking it.

Secondly: you refer to the "many people are able to discern the differences readily and prefer the lighter, RWD car." You neglect to mention they probably already own a C2/S. That's not an unbiased sample!

Thirdly: when a guy is trying to decide between 997S and TT? Please don't give him some track-based esoteric notion about steering and handling dynamics! THAT could dissuade him from actually test driving the TT!

After he test drives it it'll be game over in favor of the TT.

Okay? Are we done? I'm a bit miffed (about the railroading - common to forums) but I'm not going to hold a grudge.

Peace out.

LlBr

Not so fast my friend.

Steering feel between and C2S and a C4S would be a bigger wart-like mole issue for many guys.

Steering feel between a C2S and TT (100hp+ and >Tq) makes that mole very very small.



This is getting funny.

Nugget

The audience here is smart enough to know when you're insulting them, and not just their ideas.

Example: when you sneer in italics about drivers who think they are "very special" we all know what you mean and who you're insulting. They're your words -- don't dodge them.

Example: When you refer to "a few prideful guys" you're insulting the people you disagree with by inferring that their opinion is merely the result of misplaced pride. Again, we're all smart enough to understand what you mean and who you're talking about.

Multiple people in this thread have remarked that your tone is combative and insulting. Whether it's intentional or not, others have observed it.

This observation is flawed on two levels. First, at least two posters in this thread (Todd and Edgy) used to own turbos and decided they'd rather own C2S cars instead. You neglect to consider them in your position.

But more importantly, we're talking about bias itself. There's nothing wrong with bias here, since we're talking about why we all have the preferences we do. People who prefer the C2S buy C2Ss. Not a very meaningful observation at all. I'd expect people to own the car they prefer. Would you expect otherwise?

The differences are not esoteric. The differences are not track-based. Many people have explained this.

Demonstrably false. Many people in this thread have driven both. Perhaps even most people in this thread. Yet, some choose the C2S. So your claim is contradicted by the actual facts.

You have not been railroaded. You've just stubbornly refused to read what other people are writing.

Why do you keep saying this? For many people it is obviously not true. Aren't you reading the other posts in this thread? I realize that's true for you. Can't you realize that it isn't true for me? Or for many other people?

Fahrer

Edgy01

The other big factor that seems to be getting bypassed in some of this discussion is the fact that Porsche made the 997 turbo an AWD vehicle. The need for all wheel drive was discovered many years ago in the days of the 930s when the majority of drivers were incapable of driving a car with that much power without losing the back end in a curve. The addition of 'training wheels' for these cars has made the more average driver appear more in control, but it did come at a price.

The other factor that was a big deal to me personally (and perhaps I am alone here) is the sound. The raspy sound of a n/a 997 with PSE under hard acceleration sounds infinitely better than a muffled down 997T.

ADias

Railroaded? You are the one off your tracks. As I pointed out before, what is a Turbo owner doing in a NA forum putting down NA cars? The only possible explanation is that you are a frustrated turbo owner pining for the elastic linearity of a NA engine.