GOODYE PORSCHE. I WISH I COULD SAY THAT IT HAS BEEN NICE
03-24-2010, 12:27 PM
#94
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I am a bit slow, and yes it seems to be high consumption, but let me get this right, you say "adding a quart every 500 miles is just not acceptable on a new modern day car. My point is that had I known this I would have not bought the car, but I was never informed by the salesman or GM that Porsche uses a tremendous amount of oil compared to ANY other new car."
You have to be seriously kidding me. If you had know this you would not have bought the car?
Did you know that you need to do an engine out service in most Ferrari's every 7 - 10k miles. Did that stop you buying a Ferrari. Did you end up in arbitration/mediation with Ferrari North America over that?
Oil consumption seems high here, agree, but just surprised that it was such a serious issue that questioned your very buying proposition to begin with...
You have to be seriously kidding me. If you had know this you would not have bought the car?
Did you know that you need to do an engine out service in most Ferrari's every 7 - 10k miles. Did that stop you buying a Ferrari. Did you end up in arbitration/mediation with Ferrari North America over that?
Oil consumption seems high here, agree, but just surprised that it was such a serious issue that questioned your very buying proposition to begin with...
No, I am not kidding you. Had I known that I would be purchasing a new $108,000.00 car that needed a quart of oil every 500 miles, I would have politely declined. As far as my 2 Ferrari's go, neither the 360 Spider nor the F430 Spider requires engine out services. That ended with the 355 in 2000.
03-24-2010, 12:56 PM
#95
Move on folks....
03-24-2010, 01:34 PM
#96
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To the OP, it is unfortunate that you had a poor car and a poor dealer. Both are unacceptable in such an expensive car. My experiences have been quite the opposite; zero oil usage in just under 4000 miles, a total blast, and great dealer support thus far (though I haven't actually needed much).
I do agree that there seem to be Porsche owners and 'Vette owners, much like there are Democrats and Republicans.
I wish you great success and enjoyment with your new 'Vette.
I do agree that there seem to be Porsche owners and 'Vette owners, much like there are Democrats and Republicans.
I wish you great success and enjoyment with your new 'Vette.
03-24-2010, 02:08 PM
#97
I gotta say this... I have owned a few Porsches as well as several other sports car brands. I bought my latest Porsche just two months ago after a three-year hiatus. I felt the itch to get back again. So, I'd have to say I'm in the Porsche camp but have not consumed so much of the coolaid that I'm blind to when Porsche does badly.
You follow Porsche over the years and they make cool cars. The 911 specifically is iconic, it does well in racing, everyone recognizes it and most think think that everyone who drives one is rich (even if their P-car is an old beater). Many also think owners are automatically jerks and have small "appendages" for which they are trying to compensate :-). Those of us who own Porsches know they have certain endearing characteristics we all like that no other brand offers.
That doesn't eliminate the fact that Porsche engineering screws up inexplicably and grossly in almost every series produced. I find this amazing and frustrating. I shouldn't have to worry that my IMS will fail and my engine will self destruct or that I will use a rediculous amount of oil. 993 owners, of which I was one, shouldn't have to worry about their motors having to have top end rebuilds. The forums are rampant with the fixes for the major flaws in every series of Porsche cars.
That isn't to say that other brands don't have their moments too, but as an enthusiast who appreciates all sports cars and has owned at least a couple examples of most brands (but not a Corvette, yet), I can understand how one can be annoyed and frustrated when this stuff happens with modern, brand new cars, especially as prices approach and exceed $100k. It doesn't surprise me that much since Porsche engineering always screws something up royally but those newer to Porsche expect the marketing hype to be true.
So get off the guy's case. He has a point. And it's pretty arrogant of us to put down Vettes all the time. They aren't bad cars, have a long history, and a bunch of real enthusiasts who own them, many who are fantastic people. With every sports car brand I have owned I have met great people, great enthusiasts. The world is better for it.
You follow Porsche over the years and they make cool cars. The 911 specifically is iconic, it does well in racing, everyone recognizes it and most think think that everyone who drives one is rich (even if their P-car is an old beater). Many also think owners are automatically jerks and have small "appendages" for which they are trying to compensate :-). Those of us who own Porsches know they have certain endearing characteristics we all like that no other brand offers.
That doesn't eliminate the fact that Porsche engineering screws up inexplicably and grossly in almost every series produced. I find this amazing and frustrating. I shouldn't have to worry that my IMS will fail and my engine will self destruct or that I will use a rediculous amount of oil. 993 owners, of which I was one, shouldn't have to worry about their motors having to have top end rebuilds. The forums are rampant with the fixes for the major flaws in every series of Porsche cars.
That isn't to say that other brands don't have their moments too, but as an enthusiast who appreciates all sports cars and has owned at least a couple examples of most brands (but not a Corvette, yet), I can understand how one can be annoyed and frustrated when this stuff happens with modern, brand new cars, especially as prices approach and exceed $100k. It doesn't surprise me that much since Porsche engineering always screws something up royally but those newer to Porsche expect the marketing hype to be true.
So get off the guy's case. He has a point. And it's pretty arrogant of us to put down Vettes all the time. They aren't bad cars, have a long history, and a bunch of real enthusiasts who own them, many who are fantastic people. With every sports car brand I have owned I have met great people, great enthusiasts. The world is better for it.
03-24-2010, 02:12 PM
#98
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No, I am not kidding you. Had I known that I would be purchasing a new $108,000.00 car that needed a quart of oil every 500 miles, I would have politely declined. As far as my 2 Ferrari's go, neither the 360 Spider nor the F430 Spider requires engine out services. That ended with the 355 in 2000.
What i have learned about Porsche is its not a BMW. its not as reliable, and its definitely not as smooth. But with those two tradeoffs, i also have a spunky car that is fast as hell, likes to burn oil like theres no tomorrow, and gets lots of looks. And its fun to drive.
I guess I came to the realization you can't have everythign in life. BMW's m3 wouldn't have been as brash. But i am learning the 911 is an aquired taste. I alsmot sold the car 6 months into the problems. But i have learned to accept the faults and try and see the positives. believe me, its not easy some days, but on that day when the stars align, this is a beast of a car. A true sports car.
03-24-2010, 02:36 PM
#99
Race Director
I gotta say this... I have owned a few Porsches as well as several other sports car brands. I bought my latest Porsche just two months ago after a three-year hiatus. I felt the itch to get back again. So, I'd have to say I'm in the Porsche camp but have not consumed so much of the coolaid that I'm blind to when Porsche does badly.
You follow Porsche over the years and they make cool cars. The 911 specifically is iconic, it does well in racing, everyone recognizes it and most think think that everyone who drives one is rich (even if their P-car is an old beater). Many also think owners are automatically jerks and have small "appendages" for which they are trying to compensate :-). Those of us who own Porsches know they have certain endearing characteristics we all like that no other brand offers.
That doesn't eliminate the fact that Porsche engineering screws up inexplicably and grossly in almost every series produced. I find this amazing and frustrating. I shouldn't have to worry that my IMS will fail and my engine will self destruct or that I will use a rediculous amount of oil. 993 owners, of which I was one, shouldn't have to worry about their motors having to have top end rebuilds. The forums are rampant with the fixes for the major flaws in every series of Porsche cars.
That isn't to say that other brands don't have their moments too, but as an enthusiast who appreciates all sports cars and has owned at least a couple examples of most brands (but not a Corvette, yet), I can understand how one can be annoyed and frustrated when this stuff happens with modern, brand new cars, especially as prices approach and exceed $100k. It doesn't surprise me that much since Porsche engineering always screws something up royally but those newer to Porsche expect the marketing hype to be true.
So get off the guy's case. He has a point. And it's pretty arrogant of us to put down Vettes all the time. They aren't bad cars, have a long history, and a bunch of real enthusiasts who own them, many who are fantastic people. With every sports car brand I have owned I have met great people, great enthusiasts. The world is better for it.
You follow Porsche over the years and they make cool cars. The 911 specifically is iconic, it does well in racing, everyone recognizes it and most think think that everyone who drives one is rich (even if their P-car is an old beater). Many also think owners are automatically jerks and have small "appendages" for which they are trying to compensate :-). Those of us who own Porsches know they have certain endearing characteristics we all like that no other brand offers.
That doesn't eliminate the fact that Porsche engineering screws up inexplicably and grossly in almost every series produced. I find this amazing and frustrating. I shouldn't have to worry that my IMS will fail and my engine will self destruct or that I will use a rediculous amount of oil. 993 owners, of which I was one, shouldn't have to worry about their motors having to have top end rebuilds. The forums are rampant with the fixes for the major flaws in every series of Porsche cars.
That isn't to say that other brands don't have their moments too, but as an enthusiast who appreciates all sports cars and has owned at least a couple examples of most brands (but not a Corvette, yet), I can understand how one can be annoyed and frustrated when this stuff happens with modern, brand new cars, especially as prices approach and exceed $100k. It doesn't surprise me that much since Porsche engineering always screws something up royally but those newer to Porsche expect the marketing hype to be true.
So get off the guy's case. He has a point. And it's pretty arrogant of us to put down Vettes all the time. They aren't bad cars, have a long history, and a bunch of real enthusiasts who own them, many who are fantastic people. With every sports car brand I have owned I have met great people, great enthusiasts. The world is better for it.
03-24-2010, 03:37 PM
#100
Burning Brakes
that couldn't theoretically "self destruct" at any mileage.
If anything has two moving parts, eventually, you will have a failure.
03-24-2010, 03:43 PM
#101
Burning Brakes
I gotta say this... I have owned a few Porsches as well as several other sports car brands. I bought my latest Porsche just two months ago after a three-year hiatus. I felt the itch to get back again. So, I'd have to say I'm in the Porsche camp but have not consumed so much of the coolaid that I'm blind to when Porsche does badly.
You follow Porsche over the years and they make cool cars. The 911 specifically is iconic, it does well in racing, everyone recognizes it and most think think that everyone who drives one is rich (even if their P-car is an old beater). Many also think owners are automatically jerks and have small "appendages" for which they are trying to compensate :-). Those of us who own Porsches know they have certain endearing characteristics we all like that no other brand offers.
That doesn't eliminate the fact that Porsche engineering screws up inexplicably and grossly in almost every series produced. I find this amazing and frustrating. I shouldn't have to worry that my IMS will fail and my engine will self destruct or that I will use a rediculous amount of oil. 993 owners, of which I was one, shouldn't have to worry about their motors having to have top end rebuilds. The forums are rampant with the fixes for the major flaws in every series of Porsche cars.
That isn't to say that other brands don't have their moments too, but as an enthusiast who appreciates all sports cars and has owned at least a couple examples of most brands (but not a Corvette, yet), I can understand how one can be annoyed and frustrated when this stuff happens with modern, brand new cars, especially as prices approach and exceed $100k. It doesn't surprise me that much since Porsche engineering always screws something up royally but those newer to Porsche expect the marketing hype to be true.
So get off the guy's case. He has a point. And it's pretty arrogant of us to put down Vettes all the time. They aren't bad cars, have a long history, and a bunch of real enthusiasts who own them, many who are fantastic people. With every sports car brand I have owned I have met great people, great enthusiasts. The world is better for it.
You follow Porsche over the years and they make cool cars. The 911 specifically is iconic, it does well in racing, everyone recognizes it and most think think that everyone who drives one is rich (even if their P-car is an old beater). Many also think owners are automatically jerks and have small "appendages" for which they are trying to compensate :-). Those of us who own Porsches know they have certain endearing characteristics we all like that no other brand offers.
That doesn't eliminate the fact that Porsche engineering screws up inexplicably and grossly in almost every series produced. I find this amazing and frustrating. I shouldn't have to worry that my IMS will fail and my engine will self destruct or that I will use a rediculous amount of oil. 993 owners, of which I was one, shouldn't have to worry about their motors having to have top end rebuilds. The forums are rampant with the fixes for the major flaws in every series of Porsche cars.
That isn't to say that other brands don't have their moments too, but as an enthusiast who appreciates all sports cars and has owned at least a couple examples of most brands (but not a Corvette, yet), I can understand how one can be annoyed and frustrated when this stuff happens with modern, brand new cars, especially as prices approach and exceed $100k. It doesn't surprise me that much since Porsche engineering always screws something up royally but those newer to Porsche expect the marketing hype to be true.
So get off the guy's case. He has a point. And it's pretty arrogant of us to put down Vettes all the time. They aren't bad cars, have a long history, and a bunch of real enthusiasts who own them, many who are fantastic people. With every sports car brand I have owned I have met great people, great enthusiasts. The world is better for it.
I think the Porsche sees engine issues more than anything else because they are typically run harder in this department. I also think that since it's a much smaller community than many other manufacturers that some of the issues are over exaggerated. If you think that any high end manufacturer is without flaw you're off your rocker.
Take the good with the bad and buy the car that gets your crank turning. I strongly believe that one should only spend the kind of money we do on a vehicle if you are truly excited by the car otherwise you'll quickly because annoyed with it's flaws.
03-24-2010, 03:48 PM
#102
Race Director
The IMS bearing is simply an engineering/part selection failure.
For example, when a rash of the early 2001 Corvette Z06s experienced signs of excessive oil burning, GM either replaced the engines or replaced the rings. Andy they weren't burning anywhere near 1.6 quarts/650 miles
03-24-2010, 07:44 PM
#103
Drifting
Its not several cars, he either has a HUGE stable or he owned each car for just under 2 years. Neither of which indicates he really into ownership of the cars, but rather the desire to drive something new and flashy every year or two.
Both indicate to me he may not understand the issues at hand with his car. So I'm not overly concerned about his experience.
It would also help if he didn't start his post BY YELLING AT EVERY SINGLE READER IN THE FORUM!
03-24-2010, 10:31 PM
#104
Drifting
Oil wise, in my first 1,800 miles, my "digital" dip stick reads only 1 mark or light below 100% full and this is during break-in! So knock on wood, it doesnt seem to be a burner. The Vette and Porsche are in different leagues and if you love one you dont like the other. A vette is a typical smash mouth american muscle car. I was actually a mustang guy and a highly factoru modified one. I just sold my Roush P51 mustang that came w/ 540 hp and 540 tq out of the box, a completely worked suspension, breaks, etc, etc from the Roush NASACAR team. It's simply a different animal and as soon as I bought the 911, I dumped it like a bad habit. It became crude to me.
03-24-2010, 10:35 PM
#105
Porsche 911 have over 500 precision welds on their 18 gauge, cathodic primed, steel body with McPherson strut and coil over damper multilink steel and aluminum suspension.
Corvettes are plastic sheet molded compound bodies with plastic leaf spring suspension.
Should we go on?
Corvette Z06? Very Fast car.
Casio G-Shock Waveceptor? Very Accurate watch.
Get the picture?
Corvettes are plastic sheet molded compound bodies with plastic leaf spring suspension.
Should we go on?
Corvette Z06? Very Fast car.
Casio G-Shock Waveceptor? Very Accurate watch.
Get the picture?