DerivativesGuy

Well said Mike. Seems like a few of the folks here just dont understand civilized discourse. Ben may be helpful at times, but his rude and arrogant behavior certainly dramatically diminishes the value he adds to the board.

I for one hope his ban is permanent, the views of his aplologists notwithstanding. I have seen others adopt OCBEN's rude behavior (eg the search *****-you know who you are) and he is just an all around negative influence.

Hopefully the moderator has gotten it right this time--he usually does (as in the prior 3 or 4 bannings).

Soulteacher

Please explain that number to me: "3 or 4 prior bannings". I am only aware of 2 prior bans, so either you or I don't have our facts straight, and if it's me, I apologize. In either case, his second ban was immediately lifted by John D. because the moderator overreacted. Apparently, the same happened again this time, so the ban may again not last very long (unfortunately you can't read that OT thread, but there really was nothing ban-worthy in it, just the same old OT poop from all sides).

We all make comments that have the potential to rub people the wrong way, including you, DG (e.g., telling our newbie Raphael to get a Citroen 2CV when he was posting questions about his father's Porsche, or telling somebody who criticized the headlights of the 997 to get a Lexus, or telling someone he sounded like a 16-year old in heat, or using aggressive terminology such as 'back off', or just dismissing others by just posting a "who cares", or calling people "search *****", etc. [I, for example, take offense being called a 'search ****']). If OCBen had made these very comments, we would immediately call them "condescending" and "rude". Are they? Or are they only negative if OCBen makes them? That's the problem with this kind of medium: (1) from the receiver's end, we already have a frame of expectations/interpretation in place that is hard to break by the sender, and (2) from the sender's end, we may think we are funny, but the perception is that we are rude or obnoxious; we may think we are helpful, but unless we post dozens of smiley faces, it is perceived in a different way.

Here's is a quote by you, DG: "OC was very welcoming when i joined this board and from what i can tell he is providing mass quantities of useful information to his fellow members. Sometimes leaders need to be stern and often they come across as 'know it alls' but often times it is because they do know more than most of us." What makes him now an "all around negative influence"?

I'm not sure when and why your then appreciative attitude turned into your present day anger. You joined 8 months ago, and in the past 6 months, OCBen has mostly been in the OT (which you cannot access, so you don't know what's going on over there); during that time, he has hardly posted in the 997 forum [88 posts]; neither have you [8 posts before this thread], so why come out again right now and send these cheap shots while Ben is banned? If it bothered you so much, you could have told him the last time you saw an OCBen comment you disapproved of (when was that, by the way). I'm just not getting it. If you truly disapprove of what you think Ben is doing, then at least don't engage in the same behavior.

OCBen's Wife

At least now that he is banned, Ben has time for me again!

DerivativesGuy

Lets just say I have been an observer of this board for quite some time so I know how Ben treats other people. I find it hard to believe that you are not at all concerned with his attitude or rudeness. I am not sure why you have elected to be an apologist for this behavior, but you are certainly entitled to your opinions, however misguided they may be.

Again, he has been banned at least three times. I suspect that is a record for this board and a record which more than speaks for itself. I was simply expressing surprise that the moderator has not elected to pull the plug entirely on Ben.

As for the 2cv, have you ever been in one? funny little car that is like the product of a mating between a volkswagon beetle and a WWII jeep. They were pushing around 80ho if i remember correctly. Drove one from london to edinburgh once--what a trip. My understanding from dealing with my french friends is that every frenchmen has a soft spot for this car (in addtion to the renault) so hence the comment. Seems to have been pretty clear to our french friend but thanks for pointing out that it may have been misinterpretted by those not familiar with french auto culture.

Again, 3 bannings (or is it 4) seems to be a bit telling and I ask you to reflect on this fact.

Soulteacher

DG, it may come across that way, but it's not really a defense of Ben; mainly I'm just pointing out that some do not have their facts straight and that sometimes people comment on something they have not observed, both of which are behaviors that often lead to the very flaming wars that we are trying to prevent here (including you). I'm not saying people deliberately make wrong claims, I'm just saying that it happens and that a lot has to do with misperceptions. Plus, I pointed out that we are not innocent either, none of us.

I like this 997 forum a lot (and because I'm sick I'm spending too much time on it this weekend), and I would defend you in the same way if - while you were unavailable - someone would throw out false claims and draw invalid conclusions. That being said, I double-checked: this was not the fourth or fifth ban as suggested, but only the third one, and the second ban was immediately lifted.

In general, I too (like you and most others) believe in what Thumper said: "If you can't say something nice... don't say nothing at all." Unfortunately, that's not always possible. But hopefully we can all continue to improve! I'll start: Happy New Year to y'all!

DerivativesGuy

Happy new Year to you too Teach. You make some very interesting points. However, I still think 3 bannings (if thats all it is) is extraordinary and perhaps warrants further action. Form what I recollect, no member has been banned more than once or maybe twice. All the really bad guys have been banned for life (like WMD). So perhaps its time for Ben to go.... Some guys just dont fit in at the playground (as my fifth grade teacher used to say).

Soulteacher

DG, wait until you become a member and join the OT world... people get banned over there all the time, and repeatedly (and that's where this particular ban is from). Sometimes I think that it's not a punishment but rather a medal of honor over there.

If you think anything you've read in the 997 forum is even remotely bad, you'll be in for a shock surprise when joining the OT crowd. At the same time it's (mostly) fun to read that stuff.

And again, remember: it was only three bans and the second one was immediately lifted. Only one ban from the 997 forum, and Ben hasn't been here much anymore to begin with. I'm sure your fifth grade teacher also taught you to keep things straight...

DerivativesGuy

3 bans. Got it. I think its an issue (and so do quite a few others). You dont. Fair enough.

I have to stongly disagree that a banning is a badge of honor. Being rude, disrepectful and condescending are things that no man should be proud of. Anyway, to each his own.

Now, don't get me going on Hillary!!

malammik

I think a bulletin board such as rennlist is an epitome of "internet democracy." You make your postings be they questions, comments, etc., other members make theirs or respond to yours. You like it - good. You don't - oh well! Deal with it! You're not the boss here and you dont set the rules. Anything with exception of what would not be normally accepted say in a workplace such as personal attacks, racial slurs, etc. IS OK.

By posting and paricipating on a public forum you wave the expectation that someone HAS to be nice to you. Here is an example. I work in the IT industry and I paticipate on several IT related bulletin boards. Often I see questions like how do you configure so and so or how does this work, etc. And then you realize that the question that's being asked by this person is so $%^$% rudimentary, that you dont event understand how he or she got the job or get anything done and I dont even bother replying with "use search" because I am so disgusted with pathetic knowledge, understanding and appreciation of technology by that person. While someone else, actually does respond and explain it quite well so the person who replied does not think it is a dumb or too simple of a question. So I might've told the guy u're a dumb a$$, use search or RTFM but someone else will respond. Its a matter of perception. But the main point is, this is a public forum so toughen up.

sandwedge

Not necessarily. By nature, most humans are followers rather than leaders and seek the strength they lack themselves in others. As a consequence, the biggest bully in the room always gets their support since it usually means the bully will support them. Fits perfectly with the OC issue as some here call him the board's "leader" and always rush to his defense when they feel points can be scored by standing behind him.

This is an actual quote by one of his minions here:

"Sometimes leaders need to be stern and often they come across as "know it alls" but often times it is because they do know more than most of us."

Translation: Anyone who treats you like an idiot is probably smarter than you are.

Mark1996

If this OcBen guy has continually and intentionally attempted to wound people on this board, then get rid of him. If any members here crave his knowledge or cannot live without him, then I am sure they can privately e mail with him all they want.

Soulteacher

Again, getting the facts straight would be a first step into the right direction; otherwise it just ignites more flames. THAT specific quote is a quote by DerivativesGuy (yes, the main critic of OCBen in this thread) and can hardly be used to make that point in this context (when the quote was made, DG was relatively new to the forum and since then his perception has changed).

The good thing about the 997 folks is that we rush to anyone's defense if they get plastered with wrong accusations, false claims, flawed deductions, and alike. Stick around long enough and you will see. That's why this specific forum is now virtually free from trolls. We used to have plenty.

And again, I don't see myself defending Ben (who I happen to know well but with whom I've had rough arguments [just check the OT]); I'm just pointing out that some do not have their facts straight and that sometimes people comment on something they have not observed, both of which are behaviors that often lead to the very arguments that we are trying to prevent here.


I completely agree, no question about it.

9974G

I used to enjoy reading OCBen's posts until this one:
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...=shopping+cart

Take a few minutes to read though the posts...you may get a glimpse into his personality.

DerivativesGuy

Teacher -- as to the prior posts re OC-- Dont you get it? can you say ...tounge in cheek. I had been watching this board for a while so I knew what to expect when I posted a question. go back and read them again and you will better understand the context and the obvious cheekiness.

Soulteacher

Ha, I started that thread! I just mentioned in the "twin thread" that two years ago we used to have significantly more carefree threads going on until trolls increasingly stuck their noses into the 997 forum. Not the least because of Ben, we were able to fight them off, but somehow things never were the same again and the whole atmosphere turned rougher (the thread you listed is an example of that). Just read some of the threads below, and particularly Ben's comments if anyone is under the impression that things are all bad, all the time. We actually had a lot of fun, but it was a group effort.

What do you look like?
Everyone needs a wife like this
What a bunch of lazy posters!
Greetings from Germany!
Is your Porsche hotter than mine?
What's your move after eye contact with a babe at a stop light?
How old are you?
I'm standing at the altar...
Spin the Topic - Non Sequiturs on the 997
What does your username signify?