hexagone

Meh. The ad has been up, but my response is usually that I have no interest in letting it go of it unless they need to have absolutely that car and are willing to pay for it. TBH - rennlist is full of tire kickers anyway. I've sold almost all of my cars through craigslist and cargurus and leave the ad up for entertainment.

Also - Hagerty says a concours 09 C2S is worth 55k. I'm pretty sure that if there was a low mileage concours 997.2 around for $55k you'd have a line of 10 people waiting to buy it. I highly doubt they have the granularity to account for all the craziness going on lately.

Similarly, $34.5k for a manual 09 C2S? I'd buy 5 of them right now.

Upscale Audio

I think they've now bottomed out and will continue to appreciate. Further I think they will become more desirable than a 993. Not that they will eclipse them price-wise, but they'll get up there. Everyone talks about slamming the door on a 993 and the sound it makes. But in reality the 997 is so much better in every aspect. 993 is charming, yes. Better? No.

Doug H

There were only 77,000 993s made and there are a whole lot more Turbos, GT3s and specialty 997.2s so in reality, the NA 997.2 is rarer than the 993s.

The cray spike we are seeing is in manual 997.2s and GTS to some degree. The GTS manual is Super rare and NAs 997.2 are pretty dang rare when compared to how many manual 993s were built.

I am not sure why anyone really cares or has feelings about NA 997.2 prices one way or the other, especially if not one. The high price of new 992s also pulls up cars that are desirable like the 997.2 which will continue to be much more desirable the any of the 991s.

I don't see it as a bubble at all. I see it as supply and demand for a special car that are much less plentiful than your post acknowledges.

Ironman88

"Perhaps conjecture"...

It's total conjecture - and for anyone reading this that is considering a PDK car - you should recognize it as such.

Well documented PDK failures of any kind well-documented? Really?

I certainly will not attempt shift this discussion to manual vs PDK - but your reference to PDK's in this fashion obscures truth and fact in an (otherwise) interesting thread.

Ironman88

I would place zero value on Hagerty reports relative to realistic 997 valuation - either as a seller or a buyer. Auction data is largely irrelevant within the context of the contemporary, quickly evolving 997 retail sales trends. As far as "dealer reported" sales data - I would place no value on that as being timely, complete, accurate or ultimately meaningful.

INTMD8

Well like anything else, "better" is subjective. I went from 993 to 997.2 and back to a 993.

I think the 997 is a great car but for me, the 993 is -better-.

z3mcoupe

Good post and interesting observations. I've had/have the following;
2009 Targa 4 (stick)
2009 C4S (PDK)
Currently - 2009 Carrera cab (stick) & 2011 Carrera PDK.

Counterpoint;

I've also had a 991.2 (stick, Carrera). The 997.2 is my favorite modern 911 and I get the hype. However, I've also had a base 981 Boxster (stick), and can attest that it's a much better all-round sports car. Everything apart from the steering feedback, is better (and maybe straight-line performance). If you're bummed you can't get into a 997.2 because the world has finally woken up to them, get a 981 base Cayman or Boxster, preferably in a stick, and enjoy a car which is slightly less visceral (but close) but a substantially better all-around performer. They are at the bottom of their depreciation curve right now.

When the rest of the world learns this in 2-3 years from now, the 981's still start appreciating. The reason I have a 997.2 vs. a 981 currently, is that for me, it's still more aligned to my preferences in that it's more flawed and you have to work around those flaws. The 981 is a flattering sports car and I think possibly the best modern affordable sports car Porsche has made.

sandwedge

Not sure if it was an opinion or a comment based on facts but I read somewhere that Porsche "over engineered" the 997.2 after the issues with the 997.1 and the 996. I wouldn't rule out based on facts. How many engine failures on 997.2's have been reported here or elsewhere? I think I recall reading about one on this forum but can't be sure. Either way the new 9A1 DFI engine seems amazingly sturdy based on the lack of reported problems. Around 40% fewer parts than the M96 and M97 engines probably helped including the elimination of the IMS. Tough as an old Texas snake boot.

Kineticdg

Great cars tend to appreciate, especially if they were relatively expensive & new when they were first built. That's part of the game- even my first-generation Miata is worth much more than what I paid for it (from a very low base). My brother's '67 911S is worth probably 10x what he paid for it 20 or so years ago. If you're unhappy with appreciation, you could always buy an undesirable car... But I see no reason that these prices are a bubble, unless interest in all cars diminishes (which could happen with a scarcity of gas at some future date I imagine).

ilovemaui

It’s not s bubble until the start going doe again. I almost traded bt 997.2 CS2 for a 991.1 but after driving the 997.2 again i changed by mind. The 997.2 just feels more like a sports car. Even though its a PDK.

ManoTexas

Sad to read the posts and find out my car not worth anything because it’s PDK (coupled with being a cab makes it even less a collector), keeps me from trying to sell it and retire rich. Guess I’ll just have to keep it. Woe is me!

850tgul

Don't want to derail this thread even further but z3mcoupe, I agree with everything you said about the 981. I had one and loved it. I would just point out that a 987.2 has all the same attributes you love about the 981 but with better steering feel and the more visceral appeal you miss in the 981. While the market is starting to notice the 987.2s a bit, especially the 6MT cars, the frenzy is nothing like the 997.2s. Like the 997.2 6MT, however, the 987.2 manual cars are hard to come by.

street rod

I think we have to consider this move up in prices has been talked about extensively and predicted for the past 5 - 7 years. These types of market moves on specific sports cars are not normally bubbles like real estate etc. Most times when they go they may finally settle back slightly into the new price zone but will stay at the higher level moving forward. Similar in the past to the 964,.Dino, NSX etc. I think its important to remember this market move is more represented in a certain build of this variant which represents low production numbers. Very low in some cases. Couple that with a design that has held up over the years and is admired by almost all age groups along with a reliable platform and great performance, this begins to make sense. If you want one you better get while the getting is good because they aren't making any more.

Petza914

Best thing to do is buy the car you want to have long term (instead of stepping stones), put an Agreed Value policy in it that can be adjusted upwards based on market value, drive and enjoy it and forget about value unless it's totalled.

That's what I do and won't sell any of them. My kids can deal with that if there are some they don't want to keep or they can't buy gas 30 years from now.

groovzilla

Having owned lots of previous Porsche 911 models and followed market closely for 35 years, there is nothing different with 997.1 Vs 997.2 price changes/values/etc from what happened with 911sc Vs 911 Carrera from 1983-1987.
Same body style w/ some HP increase (also eliminated broken headstud problems w/sc engine and different transmission which eliminated the bad syncro issues in the sc models)
The later 1985-1988 Carrera rose in value compared to the 911sc.

You can say the same about the 964 models. 1989-1991 had no engine seals and led to terrible oil leaks. 964 1993-1994 models had added engine seal which corrected the issue and those cars were more sought after/valuable.

Nothin new here - History repeating itself.